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From: jdm1@vogon1.UUCP (Jonathan D McCown)
Subject: Re: Unix close for 486 - commens requested
Message-ID: <1993Aug20.175907.26362@vogon1.UUCP>
Organization: Vogon Poets Society
References: <CBAs9D.MH4@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <hastyCBvJrI.CMy@netcom.com> <CByvHr.AMJ@egr.uri.edu> <CBz356.In9@news.udel.edu>
Distribution: inet
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 93 17:59:07 GMT
Lines: 80
whealton@brahms.udel.edu (Charles Ro Whealton) writes:
>In article <CByvHr.AMJ@egr.uri.edu> black@cs.uri.edu (John Black) writes:
><rest deleted>
><EOQ>
>A couple years ago now a friend of mine bought one of their machines
>and unfortunately it was at my advice because they seemed to have such
>reasonable prices. We tried to install Interactive Unix System V
>release 3.2 on it and it kept bombing, saying it was "unable to read
>drive geometry". I had personally thought that it was the crappy Data
>Technology RLL controller they stuck him with since when trying to
>install it on one of my machines, the culprit also turned out to be a
>Data Technology controller (not very scientific, just my opinion). I
>called them because I had DISTINCTLY asked them on the phone when
>ordering this for him as to weather or not it would run Unix and the
>woman who was the salesperson said it DEFINATELY WOULD.
This is a trifle unfair. The DT RLL controller absolutely sucked,
and had you gotten any other controller, the OS would have installed
just fine. We were bitten by the DT (from Gateway) as well, and
eventually wound up ordering Adaptec SCSI or "plain Jane MFM" cards/drives
in them and having very good success. (their IDE madness had not yet begun)
The DTK uses odd ROM locations and is a very atypical and flakey device.
This site has run ESIX 3.2-D (pretty close to your ISC) for years without
burping on the same vintage hardware from Gateway. Not using a DT of course.
>Naturally, when I called back and talked to one of their support
>people, they said they weren't going to do anything about it because
>it "Runs DOS just fine".
We have also had this sort of problem with their tech support, DOS and
Windows are their sole area of familiarity. However, we have at times
insisted on their taking back and exchanging components that have not worked
in our applications-- and they have done so willingly once we explained
our testing process.
We recently found an "occasional" problem between the cache controller on
a DX2-66V and an Ultrastor SCSI controller. Two phone calls and the
Ultrastors became Adaptecs and our Netware servers are on-line. Truth to
tell, the tech did not believe our conclusions-- but they did do the swap
and credit us for the difference in price, which was what we asked for.
>Needless to say, I'll never buy another product from Gateway nor will
>I ever recommend their crappy products (in my own personal opinion) to
>anybody. ISC Unix, although picky, at that point was probably one of
>the most popular Unix versions out there. If their machine wasn't
>capable of supporting it as it was they should of fixed it. As a
>result, there's already several machines people have asked me to order
>for them that I've gone elsewhere for. Those machines run Unix
>perfectly. Apparently if a machine runs MS-DOS, it's an OK machine in
>Gateway's opinion... Don't be fooled by their stupid ads (they used to
>use Cows, I don't know what they're using in their adds now - nor do I
>care.)
Esix (now at R4) seems to like Gatway hardware, and has installed flawlessly
on various successors to the original Gateway I removed the DT from.
It has been years since the DT RLL controller was even offered by Gateway,
so I am guessing that you haven't seen their recent products. I personally
don't like their "integrated motherboard" products (for repair reasons);
but by and large Gateway makes a very solid product in their "large chassis"
desktop and tower-case configurations. For DOS-weenies they bundle all sorts
of hand-holding software, Windows, Excel etc. and things work (mostly)
right out of the box. For me (Unix and Netware) the Micronics based sytems
have been very solid, good power supplies, preconfigured with big SCSIs
(and Adaptecs:-), ethernet cards etc. I've been quite satisfied.
I just use the products and get decent value for the money.
'Guess it's just a matter of whose cow is getting gored. :-)
- Jon
--
J.D. McCown - Computer Services - Senate of Pennsylvania
psuvax1!vogon1!jdm1 "You don't want to get locked into
jdm1%vogon1@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu 'open systems'." -anonymous IBM Rep.