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From: burgess@hrd769.brooks.af.mil (Dave Burgess)
Newsgroups: comp.os.386bsd.announce,comp.answers,news.answers
Subject: [comp.os.386bsd] BNR/2 derived BSD for PCs FAQ (Part 7 of 10)
Followup-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Date: 13 Feb 1994 06:00:47 -0000
Organization: Armstrong Laboratory, Brooks AFB, TX
Lines: 564
Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.Edu
Distribution: world
Expires: 03/03/94
Message-ID: <386bsd-faq-7-761119218@hrd769.brooks.af.mil>
References: <386bsd-faq-1-761119218@hrd769.brooks.af.mil>
Reply-To: 386bsd-faq@hrd769.brooks.af.mil (386bsd FAQ Maintainer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hrd769.brooks.af.mil
Posted-By: auto-faq 2.4
Archive-name: 386bsd-faq/part7
Section 6. (Interaction with MS-DOS)
6.0 Working with DOS and BNR/2 related software.
This section is designed to cover some of the more common
problems that DOS will have when interacting with BNR/2.
There are other sections of the FAQ that deal with
indirectly with this . Try looking in sections 0, 1, and 2
to see if something in there (particularly when talking
about DOS and *BSD coexisting on a single drive).
6.1 Formatting a floppy
There is a rumor that floppy formatting either is possible or was
possible at one time. If you see any software or FTP sites with
anything about this, please contact burgess@hrd769.brooks.af.mil
and I will make sure it gets updated in here.
There was a set of patches that were developed to allow floppy
formatting. They are not currently included in any of the *BSD
systems.
I have actually applied the patches for floppy formatting here on
NetBSD, and they seem to work just fine. The fdformat program
could use some work, but seems to work OK. According to the author,
similar patches are available for NetBSD and the original 386BSD.
Presumably, FreeBSD patches can't be too far behind. The package
that I used here was posted in comp.os.386bsd.* somewhere. I think
that it is available by anonymous FTP from hrd769.brooks.af.mil.
If not, E-Mail me at burgess@hrd769.brooks.af.mil and I will mail
you a tar file with the stuff that i have available.
6.2 Sharing the Disk with MS-DOS
There are a myriad of questions about how to share a disk between
386bsd and MS-DOS. They all boils down to one of the <n> following
questions:
1) How can I partition my drive for both MS-DOS and 386bsd?
2) I can install using the whole disk, but I can't install when
I try to share the drive between 386bsd and MS-DOS. Why?
3) I can use either MS-DOS or 386BSD on my hard drive,
but shutdown -todos doesn't seem to work.
6.2.1 How can I partition my drive to support both MS-DOS and *bsd?
NOTE: Before attempting to install *bsd on a computer with an
active DOS partition, ALWAYS back up your hard drive. No one on
the net, no matter how talented, can help you recover a hosed
MS-DOS file system. If you lose all of your data, it is YOUR
fault.
During the install phase, you need to have un-allocated space left
on your disk drive. This allows the install program to correctly
install the *bsd partition in the partition table and DOS to
peacefully co-exist with *bsd.
If you do not have any space available on your hard drive, you will
not be able to install both. Re-fdisk your hard drive and make
sure you have left un-allocated space in the partition table.
This WILL wipe out your DOS partition - Permanently.
Even though the partition table procedure above may have worked,
there are still no guarantees that your system will boot after
the install. This problem most often manifests itself as one of
the endless reboot problems. You would normally be able to boot
DOS from the hard disk, but not *bsd (once that partition is
marked as active).
Once the partition table has been correctly defined with both
DOS and *bsd, there can still be problem. One of the most
common is that the disk drive works in some sort of translation
mode. This is particularly common with drives that physically have
more than 1024 cylinders. DOS cannot access a drive with more than
1024 cylinders. Translation mode will have to be turned off, usually
by redefining your hard drive in SETUP as one of the user definable
types. This change will normally trash your hard drive, or at least
render your DOS partition unreadable.
The solution to this problem is to install *bsd at the end of the
hard drive. While DOS cannot use cylinders above 1024, *bsd has
no such limitations, once it has booted. During the boot-up phase,
some of the newer boot blocks will refer to the BIOS for some
services. Specifically, the disk is checked for a bad sector map
on the last track. Since the BIOS cannot deal with cylinders
higher than 1024, your bad sector map will be incorrectly
identified as 1023 if the number of cylinders is larger than that.
This problem is being worked on, and I hope to change this section
with better news later.
NOTE: The only people that this problem will effect are those
MFM and ESDI users that have drives with more than 1023 tracks.
While drives of this type are not the overwhelming majority,
neither are they an anomoly. People are working on it.
As an example, if your hard disk physically has 8 heads, 16 sectors
per track, and 2000 cylinders (128M); you MUST use some sort of disk
translation in order to use the entire drive. An obvious geometry
for this drive (for DOS) would be 16 heads, 16 sectors, and 1000
cylinders. Unfortunately, *bsd operates using the disk drives
native geometry as reported during the probe phase of boot up. This
will probably be 8/16/2000, and will NOT agree with your translated
disk geometry. This causes an endless reboot cycle. If you change
the geometry so that the drive agrees with the disklabel, your DOS
partition is toast.
The best way to operate in this case would be to (for example)
split the disk in half. That leaves 64M for DOS, using a
geometry of 8 heads, 16 sectors per track, and the first 1000
cylinders for DOS. The second 1000 cylinders could then safely
be used for *bsd. The DOS partition table may even be capable of
showing this partition as it actually exists.
Luke Mewburn <zak@rmit.edu.au> has provided the following tutorial on
using the pfdisk program and making your *bsd/NetBSD partitions
peacefully coexist with DOS. While this is kind of a 'cookbook'
approach, please keep in mind that this is probably easily
transferrable to all BNR derived Unices.
Getting NetBSD 0.8 to coexist with DOS.
Written 930510 by Luke Mewburn <zak@rmit.edu.au>
NetBSD can be made to happily co-exist with DOS if its install
program knows how to modify the partition table. This assumes
that you have access to a program which enables you to edit the
partition table of your hard drive (such as Norton Utilities, or
pfdisk).
When you partition your hard drive, you will probably have a large
partition in which you wish to place NetBSD. This has to have the
partition ID of 165d (or 0xA5). To change this, you can use the
'Partition Edit' section of Norton's, or you can use pfdisk.
This document will go into more detail on how to use pfdisk, as it's
freely available.
I'll use my personal drive specifications in the following example.
It is a 1001 cylinder, 15 trk/cyl, 17 sec/trk, 125MB drive. I
low-level formatted it, and used fdisk on a MS-DOS 5.0 boot disk to
create a primary partition '1' of 32MB, and an extended partition '2'
of 93MB. I formatted the drive with format c: /s to give myself a
bootstrap for DOS (much faster than floppies :), but this isn't that
necessary. Now, the next stage...
Running pfdisk 0 (to access my first (and only :) HD) came up with
something like:
For help, enter: '?'
pfdisk>
At the prompt, enter 'l' to list partitions, giving (in my case),
something like:
# Partition table on device: 0
geometry 1000 15 17 (cyls heads sectors)
# ID First(cyl) Last(cyl) Name # start, length (sectors)
1 4 0 256 DOS16 # 17, 65518
2 0 257 999 unkno # 65535, 189465
3 0 0 0 empty # 0, 0
4 0 0 0 empty # 0, 0
active: 0 (none)
(Note that there is 1 cylinder less - the last one is, I think,
for the IDE controller to use when auto-mapping dud sectors out.)
Now, we want to change the type of #2 (the prospective NetBSD
partition) to 165. You can obtain a list of known IDs by selecting
'I'. Depending on the version of pfdisk you have, 165 may or may not
be known. This doesn't matter too much either way. To get the NetBSD
install program to use the 2nd partition, I would enter:
pfdisk> 2 165 257 999
Another 'l' to list partitions would show that the entry for
partition 2 will either look like one of the following (depending
on whether pfdisk knows about the 386bsd partition type or not):
2 165 257 999 unkno # 65535, 189465
or
2 165 257 999 386BS # 65535, 189465
You could set the active partition with 'a 2' if you want NetBSD
to always boot, but I personally recommend that you obtain a copy
of OS-BS 1.35 or BOOTEASY to save you the hassle of running fdisk
or pfdisk every time you wish to swap system types.
To complete everything off, do 'w' to write out the info (once
you're sure it's correct! :), and 'q' to quit the program.
Well, I hope that is useful to someone. Comments can be directed
to the author (Email: <zak@rmit.edu.au>).
6.2.2 I can install using the whole disk, but I can't install when
I try to share the drive between 386bsd and MS-DOS. Why?
This is an extension of the question above. The most common reason
for this is, once again, disk translation problems. If the
disklabel does not agree with the disk geometry, the install will
fail. Other incarnations of this problem are that you can install
DOS, then 386bsd, and DOS will be hosed, or vice versa.
There are more than a couple of people who will blithely suggest that
this is a good thing, and you should install 386bsd exclusively,
job not withstanding.
6.2.3 I can use either MS-DOS or 386BSD on my hard drive,
but shutdown -todos doesn't seem to work.
There is a known bug in shutdown that prevents the -todos option
from working as advertised on all but the smallest DOS partitions.
Many people have reported some success while using a very small
(less than 32M) DOS partition as the first partition.
There is a utility available for 386bsd which operates very much
like the MS-DOS fdisk partitioning program. You can use this program
to mark the DOS partition active from 386bsd. A similar procedure
is used (fdisk in DOS) to mark the 386bsd partition as the active
boot partition. Boot managers are also an excellent investment for
those individuals that need to boot both DOS and 386BSD.
6.2.4 Is there any hope of ever running MS-DOS applications under any of
the free BSD systems?
There is currently a project in development to port the Windows
program exvironment to Linux and the *BSD systems. Here is an
excerpt from the original message announcing the project:
As many of you already know, we are in the process of creating a
Windows emulator. This emulator is similar to Sun's Wabi product,
but is being developed completely independent of them. Many of
you are anxious to hear the latest status of the project. I have
created a mailing list for those of you. To join the list, simply
send mail to:
wine-project-info@amscons.com
If your mailing address is not easy to deduce from the mail
headers, then place the following line in the body of the message
that you send.
Reply-To: youraddress@yourmachine
where youraddress@yourmachine should be replaced by your actual
mailing address.
6.3 Accessing the MS-DOS filesystem
One of the most common MS-DOS related questions (with the possible
exception of 6.2 above) is how to access the DOS disk partitions
from 386bsd. One way is to modify mtools so that it recognizes your
DOS partition. This solution is provided by Jim Paradis
(paradis@sousa.ltn.dec.com):
--------------------------------------------------------------------
To build a /usr/othersrc/public/mtools.2.0.5/devices.c file that
lets you access the DOS partition, you need to know the byte offset
of the DOS partition from the start of the hard disk. You would then
add an entry to the devices[] array as follows:
{'C', "/dev/wd0d", <byte-offset>L, 16, 0, (int (*) ()) 0, 0, 0, 0},
So, f'rinstance, if your DOS partition starts at the beginning of
the disk, you'd have:
{'C', "/dev/wd0d", 0L, 16, 0, (int (*) ()) 0, 0, 0, 0},
On the other hand, if your DOS partition starts 32MB into the disk,
you'd say something like:
{'C', "/dev/wd0d", (32768L * 1024L), 16, 0, (int (*) ()) 0, 0, 0, 0},
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, this is both the hard and VERY non-portable way of
solving this problem. An easier way would be to add PCFS to your
386bsd/NetBSD system. Both the PC File system and PC Network File
System (PC-NFS) code has been ported to 386bsd/NetBSD/FreeBSD. These
are available from several sources, including the patchkit.
The instructions for using PCFS with 386BSD are provided by Scott
Miles <gt1679c@prism.gatech.EDU>.
What would probably be easier would be to add a partition to
the disklabel for your DOS drive and then just mount it with
PCFS. I don't know if it's in the FAQ now, I haven't read it
for a while, but this is what I did:
1) run 'fdisk' and write down the DOS partition info for
the start and size that it gives you.
2) disklabel -e -r /dev/<raw device>
- Add 1 to the '# partitions:', and then add another line
for the DOS partition . Mine went in after e: as
f: 130977 63 unused 0 0 # (Cyl. 0*- 129*)
(Ed.Note: The unused should be something else, although I really
couldn't tell you what. MSDOS is a recognized partition
type name, maybe that should be used. Also, make sure that
your c: and d: partitions do not overlap this area. h: might
be a better partition letter to use; that way the MSDOS
partition is graphically separate from the rest of the BSD
partitions. DO NOT USE a:, b:, c:, or d: for your DOS
partition. These are RESERVED for your BSD system and any
attempt to use these for anything but what BSD uses them for
will result in a completely hosed, totally dead, absolutely
screwed up file system. You have been warned! )
3) Add a line to /etc/fstab if you want it mounted
automatically.
Mine is:
/dev/wd0f /dos pcfs rw 1 2
Otherwise, just mount -t pcfs /dev/<part> /<dir>
Mount has other options that may improve performance or increase
security for your system. See 'man mount' for more information
about mounting your system read-only and other advanced features.
In addition to this, Jordan Hubbard has provided us with the
following description for mounting the DOS partition specifically
from FreeBSD:
How to mount your DOS partition from FreeBSD
1. First, be root. The following won't work as an ordinary user.
2. Second, use 'fdisk' to see where your DOS partition starts.
It will be labeled as type DOS. On my system, 'fdisk /dev/sd0d'
produces the following:
... (extraneous output, not of interest) ...
The data for partition 0 is:
sysid 6,(Primary 'big' DOS (> 32MB))
start 32, size 306400 (149 Meg), flag 0
beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 1;
end: cyl 149/ sector 32/ head 39
This shows me that my DOS partition starts at sector 32, and
is 306400 (512 byte) sectors long.
NOTE: If you're trying to mount a DOS `EXTENDED' partition, then
you need to add `32' to this start address you got from fdisk in
subsequent calculations, I.E. in the above example (assuming it
was an EXTENDED partition rather than the Primary), you'd use
`start 64, size 306400'.
[Ed.Note. This example assumes a SCSI disk. For disks with a
number of sectors per track which is different than 32, you will
probably see the 32s above replaced with your number of sectors
per track. ]
3. Next, using this information, you craft a new disk entry in your
/etc/disktab file that assigns one of your unused "UNIX"
partitions to this DOS region. Again, using my system as a
default, you see I've created:
disk0|DEC 5501:\
:ty=winchester:dt=SCSI:se#512:nt#8:ns#256:nc#1001:rm#3600:\
:pa#956416:oa#307200:ba#8192:fa#1024:ta=4.2BSD:\
:pb#131072:ob#1263616:tb=swap:\
:pc#1087488:oc#307200:tc=UNUSED:\
:pe#306400:oe#32:te=MSDOS:
As you can see, partition 'e' now points to the DOS partition as
pointed out by fdisk.
[Ed.Note again. Remember what I said about the 32 above...]
4. Now we have to actually stick the label on the disk, which is done
with disklabel. Using my example, this would be:
disklabel -r -w sd0 disk0 SCSI /usr/mdec/sdboot /usr/mdec/bootsd
5. Reboot your system to see the new disk label.
6. Mount the DOS partition. I do:
mount -t pcfs /dev/sd0e /dos_c
Where /dos_c is just a convenient directory to mount it.
7. You're set!
With the exception that the '-t' option is msdos in NetBSD, these
instructions seem to work with the same facility for NetBSD. I
also received a note a couple of weeks ago (that I promptly deleted
because I new that I would remember what it said) that DOS extended
partitions are readable if you skip the first 'n' blocks in your
computations (where 'n' is your number of sectors per track). This
way, you skip over the 'new' part of the DOS file system. That means
that insted of the oe:32 above, you would need an oe:48 instead.
Also remember that the compressed file system in DOS 6 will probably
be completely greek to your NetBSD/FreeBSD system. I seriuosly
doubt that you will be able to read the compressed DOS file system
anytime in the forseeable future.
6.4 NFS/PC-NFS support
The problems normally associated with PC-NFS are also associated
with NFS in general.
6.4.1 Can I use 8K packets for NFS? When I try, I have all kinds of
problems.
In addition to the NE2000 card, this problem can also manifest
itself on other ISA networks cards that have a limited amount of
memory. Ken Raeburn (raeburn@cambridge.cygnus.com) has identified
a common problem with the NE2000 card and provided us with a work
around:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I reported previously that I was seeing problems reading files over
NFS using the ne2000 driver; timeouts would eventually be reported, no
data would be read. Listing files and directories (small ones
anyway) were not a problem.
After playing with etherfind and kernel printfs, I've come to this
conclusion: Fragmented 8K UDP packets from the NFS server are not
reaching the UDP layer in 386bsd. The Sun is sending them (according
to another Sun spying on the network), but the UDP input routine is
never called. I don't know if the bug here is on the 386bsd or Sun
side, and won't have time to look into it in the next couple of days.
In the meantime, mounting NFS file systems with "rsize=1024" does get
rid of this problem.
Ken
--------------------------------------------------------------------
As a matter of policy, specifying "rsize=1024,wsize=1024" works very
well also, and makes the transfers seem to run faster. This is
probably because there are fewer collisions. The disadvantage of
this method comes from the kernel 'sync'ing after all NFS writes.
This can slow NFS accesses considerably. As with most
generalizations, this one too can do nearly as much harm as good.
Charles Hannum reports that he has no trouble using the default 8K
packet size. If you have trouble, reduce your default packet size
until the problem goes away.
WIth the newer drivers (especially the ed driver) most of these
problems are solved automagically. If you are still using the
original 386bsd 0.1 release, you REALLY need to upgrade.
6.4.2 How do I get around the NFS "Permission denied" error?
The problem is not the configuration of the server (unless there is
no real requirement to run it in "secure" mode, and you happen to
be running it that way anyway). The problem is the fact that,
even though mount request are sent on a privileged port, NFS
connections are not. This is part of secure NFS, and is not
supported in 386BSD.
6.4.3 What does the message "BAD MNT RPC: RPC Authentication error;
why = Invalid client credential" mean when I try to mount something
from another machine?
Hellmuth Michaelis (hm@hcshh.hcs.de) offers the solution to this
relatively common problem:
You have to make sure that the user "root" is not present in more
than 8 entries in the "/etc/group" - file on the 386BSD machine.
Simply remove some entries and the NFS mounts will succeed.
The problem is also explained in the Clarkson Driver documentation.
On 386bsd, the maximum number of groups that can be associated with
a particular user is specified in the source (in a #DEFINE). In
386bsd, this number is set to 8. So, you actually have two routes
you can take to correct this problem. The first is outlined by
Hellmuth, above, and the second is to edit and recompile the NSF
software to allow more groups.
6.4.4 What does the message "Bad MNT RPC: RPC: Authentication error;
why = Client credential too weak" mean when I try to mount something
from another machine?
This problem is a standard NFS problem; it simply means that your
user number is not one of the ones that can mount this NFS.
Normally, you will get this message when you are trying to mount
a filesystem from a machine that allows 'root' to mount an NFS,
but limits other users.
6.4.5 I get a lot of 'ring buffer overflow' messages using NFS and the
ed0 driver. Is there a problem?
David Greenman (davidg@implode.rain.com), the original author of
the ed0 driver, provides us with some insight into the inner
workings of the ed0 driver.
It always surpises me that people don't just ask the original
author these questions. :-) Anyway, the reason these are happening
is that the access to the 8bit boards shared memory simply isn't
fast enough to deal with full wire speeds...but the driver tries
hard...so even though packets get dropped, your performance only
drops to about what the ethernet board is capable of (should be
in the 400-600k range with an 8bit card). NFS is especially bad
because the UDP window is quite large (40k last time I looked),
so the overflow condition can happen easily. I've explained this
for the most part in the release notes for the driver, but these
didn't make it into either the FreeBSD or NetBSD releases (we
couldn't find an appropriate place to put them).
>From the release notes:
receive
-------
The 8390 implements a shared memory ring-buffer to store
incoming packets. The 8bit boards (3c503, and 8003) usually have
only 8k bytes of shared memory. This is only enough room for about
4 full size (1500 byte) packets. This can sometimes be a problem,
especially on the original WD8003E and 3c503. This is because these
boards' shared memory access speed is also quite slow compared to
newer boards - typically only about 1MB/second. The additional
overhead of this slow memory access, and the fact that there is
only room for 4 full-sized packets means that the ring-buffer
will occassionally overflow. When this happens, the board must
be reset to avoid a lockup problem in early revision 8390's.
Resetting the board will cause all of the data in the ring-buffer
to be lost - requiring it to be re-transmitted/received...slowing
things even further. Because of these problems, maximum throughput
on boards of this type is only about 400-600k per second. The 16bit
boards (8013 series), however, have 16k of memory as well as much
faster memory access speed. Typical memory access speed on these
boards is about 4MB/second. These boards generally have no problems
keeping up with full ethernet speed. The only problem I've seen
with these boards is related to the (slow) performance of 386BSD's
malloc code when additional mbufs must be added to the pool. This
can sometimes increase the total time to remove a packet enough
for a ring-buffer overflow to occur.
6.4.6 Is there any PC software that will allow me to use my enormous PC
with all of the unsupported hardware as a PC-NFS server?
Yes. It is called SOSS, and is available from MANY FTP sources.
You will need the aforementioned Clarkson Packet Drivers for it
to work, but that should cause too many problems for most people.
--
TSgt Dave Burgess
NCOIC Applications Programming Branch
US Strategic Command, Offutt AFB, NE
burgessd@j64.stratcom.af.mil