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Xref: sserve comp.os.386bsd.questions:9050 comp.sys.dec:18700 Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!munnari.oz.au!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!ponderous.cc.iastate.edu!michaelv From: michaelv@iastate.edu (Michael L. VanLoon) Newsgroups: comp.os.386bsd.questions,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: what to buy...what to buy *sigh* Date: 3 Mar 94 01:25:45 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa Lines: 84 Message-ID: <michaelv.762657945@ponderous.cc.iastate.edu> References: <1994Mar2.103006.1@gracie> <2l2p17$c17@pdq.coe.montana.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ponderous.cc.iastate.edu In <2l2p17$c17@pdq.coe.montana.edu> nate@bsd.coe.montana.edu (Nate Williams) writes: >Does that include Ultrix, or "Buglix" as some have called it? I assume >so. Anyway, that means you'll be running X11R4 (not R5 and certainly >never going to run R6) due to DEC not being very forthcoming about their >graphics cards. The reason the deal is so wonderful is that DEC is >trying to unload their now 'un-supported' MIPS hardware because they are >going all ALPHA. [michaelv@ponderous]~> uptime 7:25pm up 76 days, 18 hrs, 1 user, load average: 0.18, 0.02, 0.00 [michaelv@irc]~> uptime 7:27pm up 142 days, 2:09, 1 user, load average: 1.17, 0.82, 0.03 Thought I'd just introduce a little dose of reality on two "Buglix" DECstations I use on a regular basis. Sure, Ultrix has some shortcomings (what commercial Unix doesn't?), but it's much better than I've ever heard any Ultrix-bashers describe. And, it's really one of the last true BSD Unices produced on a large scale by any of the big workstation vendors. And, the MIPS boxes are hardly unsupported, considering Ultrix 4.4 is just about to hit the streets. True it will be the last version of Ultrix, but it is a very stable and mature product that should last for awhile (and 4.4 will have X11R5, from what I understand). And, by the time you're tired of Ultrix, NetBSD/pmax will be stable and you can install that in its place. :-) Just couldn't let the Buglix slam slide... ;-) In spite of its shortcomings, Ultrix is a very pleasant system to use in most cases, and works great on all 700 DECstations scattered about this campus. >Having lots of experience with DECstations, I find that for *most* >things my 486/33 compares very favorably with the 5000/200's on campus >here except when it compes to floating point, and it's a real loser >there. Note, this is a 486/33 ISA box, not EISA or VLB. A 486/66 with >EISA/VLB would be a big win. This is not just my experiene either, I >had some other folks login and they found the machine to be quite snappy >considering alot of them hate PC's. The 5000/200 is a rather dated piece of hardware. I find my 5000/25 to maybe not be quite as fast in some things in total speed as a NetBSD 486 I've seen (mine is a poor 386), but my DECstation feels smoother and less labored under load. It takes some expensive PeeCee hardware to make it truly adequate (high-speed uarts, intelligent SCSI controllers, accelerated video boards, high-speed 32-bit bus). Don't get me wrong, I *love* NetBSD. But my DECstation feels less lethargic. >Another thing to note is that a good rule of thumb is that RICS boxes >tend to use up 50% more memory than a comparable CISC machine, so 24MB >RISC ~= 16MB CISC. Binaries also tend to be larger by about the same >amount. This is true. MIPS Ultrix will require much more disk space for its binaries (and will want more RAM to run them in). >I believe a 5000/120 is equivalent to a 5000/200 but it has a half-speed >turbo-channel bus and built-in video. (I *think*) A half-speed turbo-channel bus is still a 50MHz bus (EISA is 33MHz; VLB is 40MHz). I believe the 5000/120 (and know the 5000/200) is a full 100MHz turbo-channel bus. >Something else to think about is that Ultrix is no longer 'supported' by >DEC as they are moving away from MIPS, so you are stuck with a dead-end >architecture, while the Intel stuff is still a commodity item. This >means that a few years from now you should be able to sell your PC to >most anyone while your DECstation will be only marketable to the niche >folks. Who'd want to sell it? It will perform better than an old PC, and you'll always have NetBSD/pmax. Even if you got a new machine, the DECstation would make a great server or extra X-terminal. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael L. VanLoon Project Vincent Systems Staff michaelv@iastate.edu Iowa State University Computation Center ------------------------------------------------------------------------------