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Xref: sserve comp.os.386bsd.misc:2121 comp.os.linux.misc:11616 Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rob-n From: rob-n@clark.net (Rob Newberry) Newsgroups: comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.linux.misc Subject: Re: Impressions: FreeBSD vs Linux Followup-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.linux.misc Date: 26 Mar 1994 15:41:43 GMT Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc., Ellicott City, MD USA Lines: 67 Message-ID: <2n1l3n$821@clarknet.clark.net> References: <CMzw69.92K@tower.nullnet.fi> <Cn1KJ1.9pr@boulder.parcplace.com> <HJSTEIN.94Mar24111940@sunset.huji.ac.il> <Cn6txK.IDp@boulder.parcplace.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clark.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Well, this seems to be the place for this sort of gripe, so I'm going to post it. For the last 36 hours, I've been trying desperately to get NetBSD and FreeBSD working (separately, of course :-). Now, I am definately NOT a Unix guru. But I was able to get a very nice Linux system working in much less. In addition, I never had any trouble compiling kernels or anything -- I was up to 1.0 before I decided to try the *BSD systems. The main reason for doing this was because Linux's net code doesn't seem to forward packets between a SLIP internet connection and our LAN very well. Alan Cox, one of the main developer's of Linux's net code, told me I ought to try *BSD and see if it works. IMHO, *BSD has a LONG way to go before its ready for users like me. I guess what they need most is a kind of Slackware install, where someone can get the system and many utilities installed quickly. I was VERY VERY disappointed to find that, even though I downloaded every distribution file for NetBSD at iastate.edu, I didn't even have a good way to talk to my modem -- kermit is not there, I can't get tip to work, and there's just not any instructions anywhere. Plus, when there are instructions, they're wrong. The FAQ for makeing a new *BSD kernel tells me to switch to a directory that doesn't exists on my machine, and config a file that isn't there. Yes, I did manage to find the right place, and create the GENERICISA file from the GENERICAHA, but it wasn't in /sys/i386/conf. Plus, there's no description of all that junk in the configuration file -- the FAQ says, "Perhaps someone should tell us what all these options actually mean." I thought that's what the *!@# FAQ was for! It's not just the FAQ's, either. The man pages are screwy. I wanted to add some users. In linux, "adduser" does the trick. So I do a "man adduser", and it says that this is a command for adding new users, and furthermore that it has been around since 3.0BSD. Great! So I try "adduser" and whammo! "adduser: Command not found." Yes, I did finally find out to use "vipw" (Thanks, O'Reilly), but that's just plain dumb. *BSD desperately needs the type of installation packages available for Linux. Linux installed on my system, and I added the users I needed, and they had POP accounts immediately, and I could run "DIP" to set up our SLIP connections out of the box, and I could compile kernels right out of the box and install them quickly, and I got tons of utility programs that I never even used. In *BSD, none of the things I was looking for were there -- no virtual consoles, no comm package, no "adduser", no good mail reader, no "pico", no nothing. *BSD may have fine networking code, but I won't know about it until they make it easy enough to use. Now, I do realize that many of the *BSD people like it fine. But I will bet that they have a firmer grasp of Unix sys administration than I do. I won't say its a bad system...I don't know. I will say that its packaging and installation process for novices like myself is absolute crap. So I guess I'll go back to Linux for the rest of the day. Hopefully, they'll get better net code working in it before long. If not, maybe someone will make something like "Slackware/*BSD". And if not that, well, maybe we'll be able to afford one of the packaged systems (anybody got recommendations?) My two pennies. Not worth much to most of the Unix people out there, but maybe they'll help discourage another novice from thinking *BSD will work as easily as Linux. Rob Newberry rob-n@clark.net