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Path: sserve!manuel!munnari.oz.au!hp9000.csc.cuhk.hk!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!klaava!torvalds From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd Subject: Re: AT&T vs. BSDI --> 4.3BSD-NET2 distribution requires AT&T license!!! Keywords: AT&T 'Death Star' rises over BSDI's horizon [Tel. 1-800-800-4BSD Message-ID: <1992Aug1.114436.8733@klaava.Helsinki.FI> Date: 1 Aug 92 11:44:36 GMT References: <l6nibgINNje6@neuro.usc.edu> <1992Jul21.152007.1126@news2.cis.umn.edu> <1992Jul30.174414.28488@kas.helios.mn.org> Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 39 In article <1992Jul30.174414.28488@kas.helios.mn.org> rhealey@kas.helios.mn.org (Rob Healey) writes: >In article <1992Jul21.152007.1126@news2.cis.umn.edu> rodeen@buddha.ncc.umn.edu (Rick Odeen) writes: >=I don't think this is a valid claim, Linus Torvalds developed the Linux >=system in less than one year from scratch. >= > Where did Linus get 99% of his MODELS for Linux? Ans: USL and BSD > UNIX. "We stand on the shoulders of giants..." Indeed - the /concepts/ of linux are naturally based on things that have been available in USL and BSD code. That doesn't mean that there is any risk of linux being sued by AT&T - they are all properly documented features, and thus AT&T cannot claim any infringement due to things like uid/setgid etc general unix interfaces. The problem with BSDI and 386BSD is that they have a bit more to prove than linux: BSD has been developed with free access to AT&T code (and nobody tries to argue otherwise), and there has been a flow of information both ways (arguably the flow has been bigger in the BSD -> AT&T direction, but that isn't the point). Linux, on the other hand, has been coded without /any/ AT&T code - not even as a starting point. I simply don't have access to any AT&T code even if I wanted to use it, which I don't. So if AT&T claims that BSDI (or 386BSD) couldn't have been developed in such a short time without AT&T sources, linux is indeed an argument against that claim. If one person can write a perfectly functional system in one year on his home machine (and some people that have tried both and don't need networking even /prefer/ linux to 386bsd), then a couple of knowledgeable people shouldn't have any problem to remove all the AT&T code. Note that linux isn't the only system that can claim being free from AT&T code: coherent, minix, etc have all been commercial for a long time, and USL hasn't tried to sue them. But linux is special in that it's been developed in a very short time, and thus can be used as a counter-argument to the USL claim that the BSDI developement would have been impossible without AT&T code. Linus