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Xref: sserve comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit:6259 comp.os.386bsd.development:2103 comp.unix.bsd:13935 Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!msuinfo!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!pipex!uknet!EU.net!ieunet!news.ieunet.ie!jkh From: jkh@whisker.hubbard.ie (Jordan K. Hubbard) Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit,comp.os.386bsd.development,comp.unix.bsd Subject: Re: Details on the 386BSD Release 1.0 CD-ROM Followup-To: comp.os.386bsd.development Date: 15 May 1994 17:36:54 GMT Organization: Jordan Hubbard Lines: 90 Message-ID: <JKH.94May15183554@whisker.hubbard.ie> References: <jmonroyCprpBJ.LpL@netcom.com> <JKH.94May14052314@whisker.hubbard.ie> <jmonroyCptu4u.Bqr@netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: whisker.hubbard.ie In-reply-to: jmonroy@netcom.com's message of Sun, 15 May 1994 04:36:30 GMT [Note: I've changed the follow-up, just having noticed how wide Jesus had it set - Man! The guy's worse than Cantor and Siegel! :-)] In article <jmonroyCptu4u.Bqr@netcom.com> jmonroy@netcom.com (Jesus Monroy Jr) writes: These are quite a few rough words, when neither you nor I have seen the code. As this is the case, (that neither one of us has seen the code) I won't comment on your comment. I can go by past experience just as well as the next person, Jesus, and `innocent until proven guilty' only applies for me when the parties in question haven't been proven guilty in every previous instance.. :-) Then came along some very bad companies. They did not like Bill. Bill did not like them. They argued. They called each other nasty names. Neither Bill nor the companies talk to each other much now-a-days. I'm not surprised. Bill, having all the negotiational skills of Joseph Stalin, no doubt turned a number of small tiffs into full-scale wars, which just goes to show that proper handling of the politics surrounding a project are at least as important as the technical issues (in some cases more so). In any case, there is a lesson to be learned here from Bill, and I hope those wishing to start their own free software efforts are taking heed of it. Don't alienate your users, and don't poke sleeping giants with sticks! :-) Along with these upset people were people that thought they knew what was right. And they thought Bill was wrong. They also argued and disagreed with Bill. Bill became very upset. Some said he was a very bad person. They said that Bill said bad things. This was not good. In the days that followed, Bill left and decided to take his OS with him. He did not want play with the rest of the kids. This made they rest of the kids very upset. They called Bill nasty names. They also became very upset if anybody mention Bill's name. Everyone yelled and scream and was very upset. I just love this prose, folks. Not only is it wildly innaccurate regarding the sequence and intensity of events, it also grossly over- simplifies just about every aspect of that history. Jesus, if we wanted the cartoon version of the *BSD history we'd have asked for it. You should also get your facts straight and perhaps spend a little bit of time talking to all those `bad folks' who spend hours and hours, not to mention many dollars, engaged in long-distance phone calls with Bill, trying to get some idea of what was going on and listening to his increasingly extravagant promises. We never asked him to do anything special for us, we simply wanted the truth! You seem to share his aversion for it, prefering hyperbole and gross exaggeration instead. Today we have FreeBSD and friends, NetBSD and friends, and 386bsd and friends. No one can agree on what to do. No will agree to talk. To add to this a nasty wanna-be-wizard named jmonroy@netcom.com is telling everyone. This is making everyone upset, again. We talk all the time, Jesus. I don't know anything about the 386BSD camp since NONE OF THE BLOODY "DEVELOPERS" of 386BSD EVER SAY ANYTHING! Physician, heal thyself! How many here have heard advance reports of what would be in this surprise release of 386BSD 1.0? How many can claim to have worked on it? Now how many 386BSD users went over to FreeBSD or NetBSD because of the total lack of committment to them shown by Bill and his unknown cronies? You can put your hands down now, thank you. What this amounts to is the open development groups coming under fire for being `not open enough' from a group that's always had restricted membership and zero "public responsibility" in how they let people in on the process, which is just ludicrous to say the least. The moral of this story really is: No matter how far they have to distort the truth to support their claims, Bill and Jesus are always right. As always, these arguments are pointless - how can you argue with someone who spends his life in an alternate dimension where black is white and white is black? Jordan -- Jordan K. Hubbard FreeBSD core team Friend to mollusks