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From: csgr@cs.ru.ac.za (Geoff Rehmet)
Subject: Re: users - not entirely clear on the concept
Message-ID: <Cr8EBv.BDM@hippo.ru.ac.za>
Sender: news@hippo.ru.ac.za (Usenet News Admin)
Reply-To: csgr@cs.ru.ac.za
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
References: <2t3g9a$s6h@menudo.uh.edu> <2t78ps$avo@rodan.uu.net> <2t7beb$p0n@menudo.uh.edu> <2tamoa$22g@u.cc.utah.edu> <2tbp0a$m1p@menudo.uh.edu>
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 11:52:43 GMT
Lines: 92
In <2tbp0a$m1p@menudo.uh.edu> cosc19v2@menudo.uh.edu (cosc19v2) writes:
>In article <2tamoa$22g@u.cc.utah.edu>,
[ ... about tools tables and lathes ... ]
>Consider a graduate student. What he wants to do is :
> Send mails, Connect to internet (for ftp and telnet), Do LaTeX for
> his/her thesis, Preview (postscript previewer), Compile f77,...etc.
>He/She really doesn't need to go to the SUN workstation and
>read unix man pages for yp* in order to know how to set up NIS
>(which is FreeBSD's approach at this moment). Even though he did 'man'
>there, he wouldn't understand it, which would force him to know the other
>stuffs. It is totally a waste of time to him.
>On the other hand, consider the Linux/Slackware approach.
>It asks : What is your node name ? address ? domain address ?
> name server address ? network number ? netmask ?
>Now, he goes to the site sysadm and ask for those informations.
>After he types the informations, everything works - mail works, ftp works,
>news works ....
Comments like this are always important. One of the things which
we are trying to do is to make the installation of FreeBSD easier, and
to improve the installtion scripts all the time. In 1.1R you will find
that Network interfaces, IP numbers, netmasks are all set up by the
installation script. (My only moan is that it doesn't set you up to
use a nameserver - and I am busy fixing that at the moment - 1.1.5 will
ask you for your nameserver.)
I don't think that any of us would like to see that installing FreeBSD
is something difficult, and we would like peoples comments, so that
we can improve the installation procedure.
I am not for one moment trying to say that our installation procedures
are flawless - anything but. I can show you a system I installed this
week, which cannot be installed using the standard install scripts. I
am still scratching my head trying to work out how to get the damn box
to install without manual intervention.
>BTW, I really don't have any objection, if you declare that
>*BSD is a lathe and normal users are not recommended to use,
>since *BSD is your, developers', core team's contributions.
>If you really think so, please say it officially.
I think many people have been at pains to point out that we would like
as many people as possible to use FreeBSD, and we would like it to be
as easy as possible to use. I think I can speak for the FreeBSD core
team here in saying that we have no intention of making FreeBSD an
"elite hacker system" which only skilled professionals can use. We
would like the system to be as accessible as possible, and would welcome
comments on how we can improve its ease of use.
>Also, I believe that one can learn unix by first (easily) installing it and
>then exporing one's knowledge (I think that many Linux users are in this case).
>Everyone was a novice and one needs to have some easy starting point.
>You are arguing that one should know how to use unix tools/know internals
>before people start the unix. But the problem here is that if you don't have
>enough experience, you really cannot know it. Just reading books won't work.
All of us were newbies at some stage: I first saw a $ prompt on a Xenix box
some 5 years ago (and spent a few weeks absolutely mystified as to how that
system worked). An important point is that the local gurus were always
friendly and accomodating, and were always happy to help out a newbie, so
I managed to learn how to use UN*X. Some 18 months ago, when I first
installed 386BSD, I had no clue about the system. Friendly hackers however
helped me get up to steam, and I managed to learn a lot about the system.
A lot of what I have learned is due to help I have received (especially on
the net).
I thus have a problem with anyone who goes scaring off newbies, or trying
to make them feel awkward - I was there once too.
I would like to encourage rather than discourage new users to try out
FreeBSD, and, if they have problems to PLEASE ask questions. As the
saying goes "the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked".
Also, we can only improve the system if people provide us with their
questions and feedback.
>My point was :
> From my short experience with FreeBSD, it is a very good system.
> My wish is that more people be able to use it. I guess that it is also your
> wish (or not ?).
That is one of our most fervent wishes.
Geoff.
(who has learned a lot in the last 18 months)
--
Geoff Rehmet, Computer Science Department, | ____ _ o /\
Rhodes University, South Africa |___ _-\_<, / /\/\
FreeBSD core team | (*)/'(*) /\/ / \ \
csgr@cs.ru.ac.za, csgr@freefall.cdrom.com, geoff@neptune.ru.ac.za