Return to BSD News archive
Newsgroups: comp.os.386bsd.development Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!munnari.oz.au!constellation!qns1.qns.com!news.sprintlink.net!redstone.interpath.net!ddsw1!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!trib.apple.com!amd!netcomsv!calcite!vjs From: vjs@calcite.rhyolite.com (Vernon Schryver) Subject: Re: 386BSD is dead; long live 386BSD... Message-ID: <Cv1oHM.24v@calcite.rhyolite.com> Organization: Rhyolite Software Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 15:03:22 GMT References: <33b84i$482@spruce.cic.net> <CEB.94Aug24000713@netcom16.netcom.com> Lines: 74 In article <CEB.94Aug24000713@netcom16.netcom.com> ceb@netcom16.netcom.com (Ch. Buckley) writes: >In article <33b84i$482@spruce.cic.net> pauls@locust.cic.net (Paul Southworth) writes: > ... >Very well said. But it's not quite fair to say that the Jolitz' code >development will ever be irrelevant to the *BSD family of operating >systems -- they were the first-movers, and it would not have happened >as fast or at all if they hadn't put the bugs in people's ear. That is a good point. Actually sitting down and doing a straight 4.3BSD 80386 port instead of just talking about it, and then dragging that laptop around the country side was admirable and very influential. > ... >It seems to me that a version of this dream (if I've guessed it >correctly) would be in the interests of many who are active in this >community, and to the academic community at large ... If the code in 386bsd 0.1 that was not a straight copy of 4.3BSD had not been so bad, that idea might not be so distressing. All we need is more people that produce things of the bug-free, clean coding style of 386bsd, and are not forthcoming about which parts were novel and which copied from existing, publically available source. There is another, perhaps worse problem with that dream, although it's painful to contemplate something worse than a generation of new-grads cranking out code of 386bsd 0.1 quality and setting and meeting schedules in the 386bsd mode. Few active, productive communities need or will tolerate non-participating czars, people who direct the work of the community without writing any of it. There are plenty of commercial outfits and consortia with that style. Those who like the environment or the products it produces currently can choose System V Release 4, COSE, or OSF. As we all recall, CSRG, starting at least with 4.3BSD was different on all of those counts. They were careful to give credit to other people's code. Their own code was of good quality. They put their code where their mouths were, or just produced code and kept quiet. The main problem with the 386bsd phenomenon is that personality cults are bad. It doesn't matter whether the object of the cult is as powerful and effective as Hitler or Stalin, average like Peron, or just a Breznyev. The results are never good and sometimes catastrophic. You might say that there are cults that follow D.Knuth or V.Jacobson, but because both stay so far away from their admirers, those cults are no worse than the Peronists of today. The work in 386bsd does not justify a cult nor a chair at a major university. It is the same as the work of hundreds of people who worked on UNIX ports during the previous decade. There were many dozens of 1 to 10 person groups who ported 4.1aBSD through 4.3BSD-reno to platforms that were mostly much less like a VAX than a 386 PC. Some did cleaner jobs. Some did it faster. Some did it worse and took more time. Some got very rich. Most are unknown. Most of the results looked less like, and had more novel or "experimental" code than 386bsd. Practically none brag or even talk about the work except on their resumes. There were substantial commerical outfits whose main businesses included UNIX porting for hire, and that had people who spent years grinding out one port after another. Doing a port without a paying customer or boss and without paying attention to what other people wanted is both admirable, and instant disqualification as *BSD czar or even guru. (Well, there was the pay from BSDI, but that's not a pretty story nor a story where the parties agree about the facts, so forget it.) Working on a free port is also admirable, but there are now hundreds of other people with that distinction, and even rms got only the one MacArthur grant. In this business, no one who cares really what you did last year. All that matters is what you're working on now and what you released last week. Vernon Schryver vjs@rhyolite.com