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From: gerryg@atl1.america.net (Gerry Frank Gilmore)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd,comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit,comp.unix.solaris,comp.unix.unixware
Subject: Re: Unix for PC
Followup-To: comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd,comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit,comp.unix.solaris,comp.unix.unixware
Date: 18 Dec 1994 19:36:59 GMT
Organization: Access America, P.O. Box 1222, Alpharetta, GA 30239-1222
Lines: 100
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <3d230r$kpo@peach.america.net>
References: <3ca50k$qqt@bantu.Provo.Novell.COM> <1994Dec12.160350.5262@brains.GUN.de> <3cki7l$qpl@bantu.provo.novell.com> <D0s6Jn.FGw@telly.on.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: atl1.america.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Evan Leibovitch (evan@telly.on.ca) wrote:
: In article <3cki7l$qpl@bantu.provo.novell.com>,
: Darren R. Davis <darrend@bikini.USG.Sandy.Novell.COM> wrote:
: >In article <1994Dec12.160350.5262@brains.GUN.de>,
: kirk@brains.GUN.de (Thomas Weyergraf) writes:
: >|> For serious development work, that adresses a commercial market, Solaris is
: >|> perfectly suited. With the standard UNIX environment, we all loved for
: >|> a long time, you cannot earn money anymore. No one really wants to have
: >|> a curses-based application as a commercial product. An interface-builder
: >|> belongs in every development environment, to my opinion. And the SunSoft
: >|> stuff is available, good and cheap.
: >You might want to readdress the curses-based application idea. Univel had
: >the same idea, we even included ICS's GUI builder in the UnixWare 1.0 SDK.
: >I myself was quite surprised by the number of developers still doing
: >curses development.
: I think Thomas is *way* off if he thinks nobody is making money with
: curses based apps. How many Unix-driven point-of-sale systems has he
: ever seen with a mouse attached? How many dull accounting, inventory
: control or order entry programs are GUI based? Not many.
Actually, there are even more issues involved. First, user productivity.
Does anyone really believe that data-entry/inquiry is actually faster in
a GUI environment? HA! Just in the time it takes to move the hand from the
keyboard to the mouse (or vice versa), the typical user can rip through a
complete transaction. Second, system resources. Just how much system
bandwidth is consumed by the X/network overhead? A lot. Third, price. For
the price of a decent X terminal (plus the server software, always a
mandatory option; how's *that* for an oxymoron?), we can get about 4 very
good Wyse terminals.
: Many folks in the industry are blinded by the sex-appeal of the GUIs,
: the dazzling displays and the eye-catching graphics. But don't be
: fooled. I'm pretty sure that SCO's character based stuff still outsells
: ODT. In the circle I travel I see AIX and HPUX boxes not as speedy X
: displays, but as DBMS server workhorses driving armies of Wyse 60s and
: VT220s.
The character stuff still outsells the GUI by a wide margin - except to
industry magazine writers.
: All the pretty GUI builders in the world that I've seen can't draw a
: data-entry screen as fast as a competent programmer with one of the
: common character-based 4GLs.
: While I readily agree that the move *is* happening, it's happening far
: slower than the hardwate salesmen and backroom propellerheads would like
: to admit.
: There are still a large number of applications for which switching to
: GUIs doesn't promise extra productivity in return for the extra cost and
: complexity. It'll be a *long* while before things like bank tellers and
: airline reservation systems are switched en-masse to GUIs.
Until GUIs address the productivity issues, not to mention administrative
headaches, I don't see it happening at all. When we propose systems, we show
them the GUI version and they get all excited until they look at the prices.
: >In terms of a standard
: >Unix environment, It's up to X/Open and SPEC 1170. UnixWare will be a
: >reference standard for years to come.
: But UnixWare can throw people off a bit. The console still usually
: demands a VGA and pointing device, even to just get through the early
: goings, so people are exposed to a GUI even if the system will just
: have a dozen people at glass screens plugged into a Digiboard.
: Someone who comes from a character-only-based system such as Xenix is
: still in for a bit of a shock going to UW, even if the GUI is shut off.
: IMO there should be better docs on *how* to completely shut the GUI off.
You've hit upon one of my pet peeves. I have the non-GUI installation process
down pat now (after about a dozen installs to get it right). But, when I
complained to Novell that the mono console driver in 2.0 BETA sent the
system into endless hard resets, their response was that mono consoles were
not *officially* supported anyway. And just why did I want to use that type
of thing anyway? Grrrrrr. (PS - there is a mono driver as part of the IHV
source stuff, go figure.)
: --
: Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
: Novell Unix Master Reseller / evan@telly.on.ca / (905) 452-0504
: Are vegetarians allowed to eat animal crackers?
--
Gerry F. Gilmore
Health Systems Resources, Inc.
Atlanta, Ga. E-mail: gerryg@atl1.america.net
As always, should I be caught or killed, my employer will disavow any
knowledge of my actions.
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