*BSD News Article 42432


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From: kaleb@x.org (Kaleb KEITHLEY)
Newsgroups: comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: Put the Cannons Away: Vote YES on newsgroup reformation.
Date: 13 Feb 95 20:33:43 GMT
Organization: X Consortium Inc.
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Terry Lambert <terry@cs.weber.edu> writes:
>kaleb@fedora.x.org (Kaleb KEITHLEY) wrote:
>] >In the spirit of "do something broken now and fix it later", the
>] >simplest change is renaming "386bsd" to "bsd".
>] 
>] You continue to disregard the simple fact that the Usenet cabal won't 
>] allow this. They simply will not allow comp.unix.bsd and comp.os.bsd 
>] to exist at the same time. Period. Call them stupid -- many have -- but
>] I tried at the outset to get that and they declined to post the RFD
>] until I did things their way.

>And you continue to call it RFD (Request For "Discussion") and CFV
>(Call For "Votes") in light of this?

>Why even observe the trappings of democracy your "Cabal" supposedly
>subverts?

Yeah it's a farce, so what? Is there a constructive suggestion buried 
in code somewhere in your post or is this just more rhetoric? I could 
certainly post the newgroups myself and start a round of newgroup/rmgroup 
wars. I'm willing to work to dismantle the cabal, but I want to know 
who's going to replace David Lawrence. It's kinda like tolerating Sadam 
Hussein in Iraq because we know if he got taken out that whoever replaced 
him would be even worse. It's been said before, and it merits saying again 
that David Lawrence is the proverbial 1,000 pound gorilla who sits anywhere 
he wants, because he knows that no one else is willing to do the job he's 
doing.

>] >Yes, it's a stupid idea.  Doing something broken thinking you can
>] >fix it later (much like the 'comp.unix' heirarchy itself) always
>] >*is* a stupid idea.
>] 
>] Not necessarily. Sometimes it's better to do something, even if there
>] are things wrong with it, than nothing, and I think this is one of those
>] times.

>"Never substitute activity for action"  -- Seneca

"Don't just do something, stand there." -- Kaleb

Sure, activity without a purpose is a waste. Activity with a purpose is 
action.  You can spend your whole life trying to figure out if something 
is the right thing to do before you do it. That's my idea of a waste. 
Sometimes you do something and find out after the fact that it was the 
completely wrong thing to do; but if you choose to do nothing for fear 
it will be the wrong thing, then you don't even get to learn from your 
mistake. Better to do something, even if it turns out to be wrong, than 
nothing. And if it turns out to have been the right thing, then you're 
ahead of the game. Don't settle for nothing. 

The goal was to get groups in Usenet for FreeBSD. NetBSD, 386BSD, and 
BSD/OS got a free ride. All this mudslinging and name calling has just 
about sucked every last drop of philanthropy right out of me. I'm eager 
for this farce to be over and will count the days until the topic can be 
reopened. Then all the know-it-alls who think their powers of persuasion 
as so good can have their turn to grovel at the cabal's feet trying to 
get the RFD posted. And I'll probably get a good laugh when the RFD
finally gets posted.

I use FreeBSD. I think it needs to be marketed better. It's a good tool. 
It shouldn't be that hard to find a newsgroup with an appropriate name.
If it is, then there's something wrong. Do you think that all the fools
who use Micro$oft Windoze have any trouble finding groups to ask questions
in? The current situation of no group with FreeBSD in the name is nothing
short of intolerable. If we accept your premise, we should let this
intolerable state of affairs continue until some unspecified day in the
future.

Lots of people keep trying to turn this into a debate about whether 
FreeBSD, NetBSD, BSD/OS, and 386BSD have a legal right to call themselves
UNIX. That's not what this is about at all. It's about getting groups in 
Usenet for them. So get past whether they're really UNIX or not. Get past 
the fact that the only opening in the Usenet name space has the word UNIX 
in it. It also has BSD in it, and these operating systems, UNIX or not, 
are undeniably derived from BSD. If that's not true, then ask yourself 
why do their names even have BSD in them.

If you want a newsgroup with the name FreeBSD, NetBSD, BSD/OS, or
386BSD in it, then vote yes on the CFV. If you want newbies to be able 
to find that newsgroup, to be able to ask questions and get or give 
answers, then vote yes. Don't *settle* for nothing.

--

Kaleb KEITHLEY