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Xref: sserve comp.os.386bsd.misc:5417 comp.unix.bsd:16189 comp.sys.novell:67983 Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!msunews!uwm.edu!news.alpha.net!news.mathworks.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!nntp.et.byu.edu!news.byu.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!park.uvsc.edu!usenet From: Terry Lambert <terry@cs.weber.edu> Newsgroups: comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd,comp.sys.novell Subject: Re: Put the Cannons Away: Vote YES on newsgroup reformation. Date: 16 Feb 1995 17:09:55 GMT Organization: Utah Valley State College, Orem, Utah Lines: 67 Message-ID: <3i00t3$2u3@park.uvsc.edu> References: <D3o5Ew.8x2@nbn.com> <3hdu9u$rhm@park.uvsc.edu> <3hegvm$plp@agate.berkeley.edu> <hm.792410152@hcswork.hcs.de> <3hhlk1$fc9@agate.berkeley.edu> <3hjmsn$p7b@park.uvsc.edu> <kaleb.792586335@fedora.x.org> <3ho9kj$p9@park.uvsc.edu> <kaleb.792707623@exalt> <3hs0f1$crd@park.uvsc.edu> <kaleb.792846319@fedora.x.org> <3htgri$jbc@park.uvsc.edu> <kaleb.792882548@exalt> NNTP-Posting-Host: hecate.artisoft.com kaleb@x.org (Kaleb KEITHLEY) wrote: 1) I think that you have not noted the intentional distinction I made between "you", the group of people electioneering for "yes" votes and the accusatory "you" (spelled "*YOU*" in the posting). Please reread the post in that light, and if you still wish to discuss it, I will be happy to accomodate you in email. 2) After my statement "Quit electioneering and start counting votes", you stated that I did not understand the process. I understand the process well enough to know that this discussion properly belonged in the RFD stage (I stated my opinion at that time). What is going on here is the functional equivalent of political debating 50 feet from the polls on election night. The problem is that a real political party responded to a statement by the anarchist party, and now the other party is put in the position of *having* to debate. Yes, a post-RFD debate may change the outcome of the vote. Jesus did not start this debate, the people responding directly to him did. I admit your right to debate in light of an existing debate in progress. I also suggest ending it. I will no longer debate the desirability of one vote outcome over another. This is not an acknowledgement of any kind; it is a refusal to debate. 3) One new item that has come to light in this process that was not clear to me before (and perhaps this is my own fault) is that you effectively stated that you were personally bullied into the choice of names by a shadow organization you call "The Usenet Cabal". For this to be true there must have been a significant abuse of process, perhaps including abuse of the position of news group moderator. Personally, I have a hard time buying this, and others I have talked to in person and in email also have a hard time buying this. Not only that such a group could exist and wield the power you claim, but that as adamantly as you have held on to this thread, it is highly unlikely that you would have humbly submitted to their ruling. I would like proof of this charge. For instance, the email refusing you the right to post a properly formulated RFD, regardless of content. According to the established bylaws, this is not an allowable action, since the "existing heirarchy" requirement is satisfied not only by the existance of comp.os.386bsd.*, but also by numerous comp.os.* groups,including but not limited to comp.os.msdos, comp.os.os2, and comp.os.linux. This is a matter I will *not* let drop without proof. If you want to fight "The Usenet Cabal", identify it and I am your ally, don't identify it and I am your foe. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.