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Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!newshost.marcam.com!news.mathworks.com!uunet!nntp.cac.washington.edu!somsky From: somsky@pauli.phys.washington.edu (William R. Somsky) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd Subject: Re: Linux vs. BSD?! Date: 1 Mar 1995 19:13:23 GMT Organization: University of Washington Lines: 87 Message-ID: <3j2h0j$4tg@news.u.washington.edu> References: <3ira54$7vq@quandong.itd.adelaide.edu.au> <3itn8b$4q6@fido.asd.sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pauli.phys.washington.edu In article <3itn8b$4q6@fido.asd.sgi.com>, Larry McVoy <lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com> wrote: > I agree completely with this sentiment. In my not so humble opinion, > the BSD camps need to do the following to be successful: > > [Following comments deleted...] Well, this has finally causes me to come out of the lurking shadows and add my own opinion -- humble or otherwise -- to the discussions. Before declaring what the BSD camps need to do to be "successful", we need to determine what type of "success" is desired. How do you measure "success"? In terms of: ...installed systems? ...installed user base? ...robustness? ...functionality? ...code stability? ...code volatility? ...code flexibility? ...code "tightness"? ...leading-edgeness? ...bleeding-edgeness? ...available applications? ...newsgroup traffic? ...public recognition? ...public perception? ..."expert" perception? ...managerial perception? ...availability of commercial support? ...availability of free support? ...possibility of self-support? ...suitability for small business? ...suitability for large business? ...suitability for hobbyists? ...suitability for research? ...suitability for development? ...advancement of (cost) free software? ...advancement of (restriction) free software? ...personal satisfaction of those writing the code? ...etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum... All these are separate and distinct measures of "success", with many direct and indirect conflicts between them. And how you go about obtaining "success" depends on what type of success is desired. Sorry if this all seems obvious, but many of the postings I've been reading about what the various BSD groups need to do to be "successful" seem -- to me at least -- to be ignoring this point. It's one thing to say that "(large) businesses will not adopt *BSD systems unless there is commercial support available (since that is what managers insist on)". I can very well believe that that is true. It is, however, entirely different to then continue with "so unless commercial support becomes available (which will only occurr if the *BSD groups do such-and-so), *BSD will not be *successful*". I'd guess that for many of the people involved in the *BSD effort, their reaction is "Who cares? I don't give a d*mn if businesses use it or not. That's not success..." But for others, it's the only measure of success. I'm sure that the same also holds true for any of the other *BSD "success" arguments posted to the net. In all these cases, they are certainly valid points to consider, but *only* if you also consider what *kind* of "success" it leads to and what kind of "success" you/we are aiming for. Should *BSD be trying to get as large a user community as Linux? Should it be trying to become accepted by businesses? Should it be trying to become the research heir to CSRG BSD? Until some sort of agreement is reached on the goals and type of success we're trying to reach and their priorities, we can't come up with any effective means reaching those goals. Anyway, I'm afraid I'm starting to rant... (Hand me that towel so I can wipe the foam off my mouth, will you? :-) ...so I better stop here. In closing, to keep people from thinking that I'm totally rabid, I'd like to say "thanks" to everyone whose worked on the various *BSD's making it the viable entity it is, without which we wouldn't even have a basis for having these discussions... Keep up the good work all -- no matter what goals you're working toward. ________________________________________________________________________ William R. Somsky somsky@phys.washington.edu Department of Physics, FM-15 B432 Physics-Astro Bldg Univ. of Washington, Seattle WA 98195 206/616-2954