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Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!saturn!larryr From: larryr@saturn.sdsu.edu (Larry Riedel) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD Date: 23 Jun 1995 22:05:32 GMT Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences Lines: 110 Message-ID: <3sfdrc$12n@pandora.sdsu.edu> References: <3qfhhv$7uc@titania.pps.pgh.pa.us> <3sb2sr$rl8@pandora.sdsu.edu> <3scfhp$sno@park.uvsc.edu> <3sd2ml$16e@pandora.sdsu.edu> <3sdmhf$tm1@felix.junction.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: saturn.sdsu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Michael Dillon (michael@okjunc.junction.net) wrote: > Larry Riedel <larryr@saturn.sdsu.edu> wrote: > >Terry Lambert (terry@cs.weber.edu) wrote: > >> A lot of people are not fully net > >> connected: they are limited to email, etc. This includes some > >> of the developers, especially those in Eastern Block countries. > >> > >> Expecting a news feed as the price of admission to "the kindom of > >> the developers" is a little elitest. > > > >What are these people using to get E-mail? Couldn't they use UUCP? > > Are you aware that there are LOTS of places in the world like the > Republic of Byelorus whose entire Internet connection is one single 9600 > bps SLIP line to the outside world? I am aware that there are many disadvantaged people in the world. If FreeBSD wants to be the project that lets them all make a contribution without having to help out by answering questions on USENET, that is great, but I don't think that FreeBSD should also expect to have a reputation for equal or superior technical support for the users by the developers as Linux. > Sure they could (and they DO) augment > that with UUCP connections, but then they pay long distance fees for > every byte that is transmitted and unless they are the person paying the > bills, they don't get to choose what newsgroups are carried. Carried by whom? A USENET article can be sent as E-mail over a SLIP or UUCP connection much like a mailing list message can, and it is not fundamentally much more costly or technically challenging to do so. Perhaps there is already an E-mail gateway to the FreeBSD newsgroups, in which case I don't see any reason that accessing these groups would be particularly harder than a accessing a mailing list. > >If so, why don't they get a newsfeed of the appropriate groups? > >How much would that cost, and what could the FreeBSD community do to > >help defray it? What is the price cutoff for "elitest" anyway, and > >what happened to them not having the "news-reading time?" All of a > >sudden I find the truth that these geographically challenged people > >have the time but are hapless victims of USENET elitism! (: > > You are really beginning to sound like the stereotypical arrogant > American idiot who doesn't understand why everybody in the world doesn't > do things his way. *blush* Thank you, but please - my modesty! "Stereotypical arrogant American idiots" happen to be the biggest potential customer base for a product which markets itself to the average computer user, so if FreeBSD markets to that group, it must cater to them (:us?) as well. > > My personal opinion as far as FreeBSD goes from what I have seen in > > this newsgroup is that too much emphasis has been placed on pandering > > to neophytes, which I think is not where FreeBSD has any strategic > > advantage over Linux or ever will; nevertheless, I think that this > > newsgroup is the best place for the questions of non-neophytes, and > > that developers should be here to read and respond to those questions. > > Non-neophytes have the O'Reilly 4.4lite manuals or they ask their > questions in news.software.nntp or comp.unix.wizards or one of the other > couple of dozen more appropriate newsgroups. FreeBSD is wonderful, but it is ludicrous to claim that there are few problems specific to FreeBSD except those experienced by neophytes. And there are FreeBSD neophytes who know plenty about Unix and INN - hopefully more of them every day. I would agree that USENET is also the best place for neophyte questions, but in that case I do not see the need for those questions to be addressed by developers, since they can usually be answered by other users. > Or they join the mailing lists. Is it more convenient for the average person to join a mailing list or read a newsgroup? E.g. members of CompuServe, Prodigy, America Online, (soon to be) the MicroSoft Network, etc. I think it is the latter. > >So why is this better than having the question and the answer posted > >to the newsgroup in the first place? > > There are many many times when I have asked a question and it was never > answered in a newsgroup, only in e-mail. If it wasn't just some dumb > thing on my part, I would post a summary answer to the newsgroup. That's > netiquette and if the posters in this newsgroup don't follow that rule Reality is that plenty of people do not follow that rule. Who suffers? > then it is *NOT* the responsibility of the FreeBSD team. When did I or anyone else say that it was the "responsibility of the FreeBSD team" to do anything in this regard? And what difference does it make to the average person whose responsibility it is? The average user just wants things to be as easy as possible, and I don't know of an easier or faster alternative for a person than going to a newsgroup and looking at a list of threads to see the question and the answer they are looking for and then getting back to their life, unless of course the question they are looking for is already answered in the documentation or archives, but that is a separate issue. Larry