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Xref: sserve comp.sys.powerpc:41437 comp.sys.intel:38842 comp.unix.bsd:16659 comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit:8644 comp.unix.sys5.r4:9856 comp.unix.misc:17430 comp.os.linux.development:24437 comp.os.linux.misc:49085 comp.os.386bsd.development:3338 comp.os.386bsd.misc:5708 comp.os.misc:4070 Path: sserve!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!nexus.coast.net!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!kaleka.seanet.com!news.seanet.com!not-for-mail From: kanefsky@datamagic.com (Steve Kanefsky) Newsgroups: comp.sys.powerpc,comp.sys.intel,comp.unix.bsd,comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit,comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.unix.misc,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.386bsd.development,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.misc Subject: Re: X on dial-in Date: 23 Jun 1995 09:09:17 -0700 Organization: Data Magic Lines: 58 Message-ID: <3seovd$a2s@datamagic.com> References: <3f44s2$jqm@maverick.maverick.tad.eds.com> <3s49a5$1988@news.doit.wisc.edu> <3sc1s5$67e@datamagic.com> <3sdgu2$5ii@park.uvsc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.182.125.1 In article <3sdgu2$5ii@park.uvsc.edu>, Terry Lambert <terry@cs.weber.edu> wrote: >kanefsky@datamagic.com (Steve Kanefsky) wrote: >] Aren't we comparing apple's and oranges here? It sounds like some people >] are just quoting rates for the ISDN line from the phone company, or >] perhaps for an ISDN line plus a limited account with an ISP, whereas the >] poster who quoted the $595 price was clearly talking about a 24 hour/day >] dedicated ISDN line to the Internet (most likely with routing for an >] entire network). Just the ISP charge for a dedicated 28.8k modem line >] is typically $150/month. Frame relay, which is probably the most >] cost efficient way to get 128k bandwidth, typically costs $275-425/month >] just for the ISP charges, not counting what the telephone company charges >] you for the line at all. > >Your ISP is bending you over because they can simply get one pipe >to the FR cloud. With ISDN, there must be a connection to the phone >company for each connected customer. With FR, they can have a >big pipe to the cloud with each customer having a fractional pipe >to the same cloud. Yes, that was one of the points I made. Frame-relay is more cost-effective than ISDN for a dedicated line (in fact I had gone into the same "one big pipe" stuff but then deleted it from my post), and by mentioning that my Internet provider charges $275 (no routing) or $425 (with routing) for 128k frame-relay service, I was showing that $595/month for the dedicated ISDN line wasn't that ridiculous. ISDN, in addition to requiring more equipment at the ISP, also provides somewhat more usable bandwidth, despite them both being '128k'. BTW, note when I say "frame-relay versus ISDN", I really mean frame-relay over a leased line, e.g. fractional T1. Frame-relay can actually be used *with* ISDN (though I don't think this has been widely implemented yet), which gives the customer the advantages of an ISDN line and the ISP the advantages of frame-relay. >I have no idea why your ISP is bending you over. Perhaps he >doesn't have the volume to amortize the pipe cost because all >the other people had ISDN pushed on them. Or he just likes >bending you over. Or he's an idiot and hasn't run the numbers. The ISP charges much more per unit bandwidth for true dedicated lines than frame relay. How is that bending me over? When did I ever give any indication that frame relay was more than ISDN? My main point was that you can't compare what an ISP charges for a 24 hour/day dedicated line with routing to what they charge for an on-demand service without routing (or even worse, compare the ISP charges for ISDN to the telco charges for the ISDN line). Maybe you think that the $275-425/month for frame-relay is too much, but if you look at what it costs the ISP it's not really that bad. He has to pay for his T1 lines to the Internet, for the frame relay connection to his customers, for routers, for UNIX boxes and big disks to hold news and mail, for tech-support and system administrators, etc. Anyone who charges much less is probably overbooking their Internet bandwidth. -- Steve Kanefsky