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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!simtel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!news.emf.net!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!warwick!clyde.open.ac.uk!ck5121gm45b.open.ac.uk!user From: macgremd@bean.open.ac.uk (malcolm macgregor) Newsgroups: misc.jobs.offered,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c-cat,comp.object,comp.lang.eiffel,alt.syntax.tactical,comp.lang.misc,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc Subject: Re: [--] Re: Beginner to C/C++ looking for some good books Followup-To: misc.jobs.offered,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c-cat,comp.object,comp.lang.eiffel,alt.syntax.tactical,comp.lang.misc,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc Date: 29 Aug 1995 15:42:46 GMT Organization: open university Lines: 40 Message-ID: <macgremd-290895162327@ck5121gm45b.open.ac.uk> References: <40b4i2$egf@ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <brockmanDDLJDL.2IJ@netcom.com> <41alha$b1g@cisunix1.dfci.harvard.edu> <DDowtJ.KL6@research.att.com> <41fqd0$jp0@espresso.internet-cafe.com> <41m918$jkf@nova.umuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ck5121gm45b.open.ac.uk Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au misc.jobs.offered:195379 comp.lang.c:110868 comp.lang.c++:121285 comp.object:30904 comp.lang.eiffel:8999 alt.syntax.tactical:921 comp.lang.misc:17131 comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc:137 In article <41m918$jkf@nova.umuc.edu>, coates@nova.umuc.edu (Elliott Coates) wrote: > Bertrand Meyer (bertrand@eiffel.com) wrote: > : From Andrew Koenig <ark@research.att.com>: > : > : > C++ ... C programmers should not be forced to discard > : > their...knowledge They can carry USEFUL knowledge over to working in another environment, and hopefully discard the rest. > : The Eiffel approach holds that a language ... should not try to be two > : radically different things at once - C and object-oriented... > But that is needed to bring large numbers of C programmers into OO I don't agree. C programmers should be encouraged to broaden their horizons by reading Bertrand Meyer's books, or other up to date books on OOP principles. It has been shown that many C programmers bring their C view of the world to C++, and loose the benefit of OOPS. By using Eiffel or smalltalk they will be forced to modify their world view. You will not become a Copernican by using uncool epicyclic maps. > : [C++ is]is hampered by the yoke of C compatibility (memory management, > : type safety, modular structures, syntax, pointers, array handling etc.). > > -- 'delete' every 'new'. You may want to spend your days as a garbage collector, I've better things to do with my time. Also, if you delete your new at the wrong time or don't delete your new at all you will run into serious problems. > On type safety, modular structures, syntax, and pointers - how is C++ > deficient? Agreed there are no built-ins for array boundary checking, > but the C++, and C programmer knows to check for this. > > But because the syntax of Eiffel itself is so radically different from > C, it offers no easy path for C programmers who want to do the object > thing. The syntax is not difficult to learn, and in learning it you gain appreciation of the OOP view of things. Note, the same is true for Smalltalk which has an even easier syntax.