*BSD News Article 5539


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From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: 386BSD and IDE drives
Message-ID: <1992Sep24.053902.6861@tfs.com>
Date: 24 Sep 92 05:39:02 GMT
References: <1992Sep23.212547.15460@fcom.cc.utah.edu> <19r0h6INNp42@aludra.usc.edu> <1992Sep24.022400.19483@fcom.cc.utah.edu>
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Lines: 84

In article <1992Sep24.022400.19483@fcom.cc.utah.edu> terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C) writes:
>In article <19r0h6INNp42@aludra.usc.edu> eddy@aludra.usc.edu (George Edmond Eddy) writes:
>>terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C) writes:
>>
>>>	I personally wouldn't buy an IDE because of geometry translation,
>>>and there's one Maxtor SCSI drive, so far, in the same boat.  I like the
>>>UFS caching and optimization to actually result in a speedup, and it
>>>can't on a geometry translated drive (see my other tirade 8-)).
>>
>>this would have been really cool to know before i plopped down $400
>>on an IDE, i would have come up with the extra $100 for the scsi
>>controller, and went with that.  
>>
>>Does the geometry translation problem in the other triad just result
>>in a loss of intended performance gains, or can it result in freaky
>>things happening to files and filesystems?  
>
>The only time it acts "funny" is if the translation is used at one time
>but not another -- for instance, 386BSD.
>
>The inital program load (IPL) code is from ROM and uses BIOS -- so the
>geometry translation is in effect.  Later, the "real" boot loader loads
>the kernel using BIOS -- still no problem.  Then the kernel takes over
>in protected mode -- problem.  Because the kernel has a driver which
>probably ignores translation (which is generally a function of the BIOS,
>although not in every case, ie: the Maxtor SCSI drive), the location
>for paging and so on is not the load location.  In addition, you may find
>that during install from a floppy that the boot information could be
>written to a location on the hard disk that happened to cause it to boot...
>but that the translated boot information locates to somewhere in the middle
>of the untranslated disk.  You will run fine until you accidently overwrite
>your boot information and it "mysteriously" quits booting.
>
>A lot of this can be alleviated by picking the user defined drive type and
>entering the correct geometry as part of the CMOS setup.  You of course
>have to be able to *find* this information out, however.
>
>The other common problem is when you try to "partition" the drive.  Since
>the master boot record and partition table are at the front of the disk,
>giving 386BSD the whole disk works (because sector 0 cylinder 0 usually
>translates to the same location as it's untranslated value), but partitioning
>doesn't work (because the translated address of the partition is not the
>same as the untranslated address because it occurs at an offset greater than
>0).  This is also fixed by the "user defined drive type" fix.
>
>The problem with the "user defined drive type" fix is that you probably
>wouldn't be doing geometry translation unless you needed it... which means
>more than 1024 physical cylinders on a drive (anyone ever wonder why MFM
>disks can only have up to ~130M on them?  No geometry translation to let
>them pretend that they have 1024 or less cylinders).
>
>Geometry translation is DOS's way of breaking the 1024 cylinder boundry...
>beware of large drives that let DOS use the whole disk!
>
>Since DOS can't access cylinders past 1024, this means a DOS partition
>would have to be before that -- thus either reducing the usable disk space,
>or making the 386BSD partition the second one rather than the first.  A
>problem in asboot.c means that not having the 386BSD partition first can
>mean it won't work.
>
>One of the most hilarious presentations I ever sat through was by a company
>that tried to sell us "disk optimizer" software to "make the files
>contiguous for faster access, reduce seek time, and practically eliminate
>delays from rotational latency" -- right after selling us machines with
>IDE drives in them.  Since they were for DOS, I really didn't care of the
>drives were IDE or not.  My problem was with the company:  either they were
>stupid or they thought we were, either of which is reason enough to not do
>business with them again.
>
>Now I wouldn't buy an IDE drive at all, since I expect to eventually install
>386BSD on all machines in unlocked offices.  8-).  8-).
>
>
>					Terry Lambert
>					terry_lambert@npd.novell.com
>					terry@icarus.weber.edu
>---
>Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
>or previous employers.
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                        "I have an 8 user poetic license" - me
> Get the 386bsd FAQ from agate.berkeley.edu:/pub/386BSD/386bsd-0.1/unofficial
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------