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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!nntp.coast.net!lll-winken.llnl.gov!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!tfs.com!mailhub.tfs.com!julian From: julian@mailhub.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD Date: 2 Dec 1995 12:40:07 GMT Organization: TRW Financial Systems, Oakland, CA Lines: 153 Message-ID: <49phf7$rmp@times.tfs.com> References: <489kuu$rbo@pelican.cs.ucla.edu> <49o2n2$t4e@daffy.anetsrvcs.uwrf.edu> <49osrd$ptg@times.tfs.com> <49pb5g$di8@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mailhub.tfs.com Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.advocacy:28869 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:9655 comp.unix.advocacy:11594 comp.unix.misc:19752 In article <49pb5g$di8@agate.berkeley.edu>, Nick Kralevich <nickkral@parker.EECS.Berkeley.EDU> wrote: >In article <49osrd$ptg@times.tfs.com>, >Julian Elischer <julian@mailhub.tfs.com> wrote: >>Whoops, can't let you get away with that one I'm afraid.. >>The entire FreeBSD system are available on a DAILY basis >>(or should I say CONTINUAL basis) The releases are just the time >>when we make an EXTRA effort to snapsot it and we >>'freeze development' for a while to get that snapshot >>'right'. > >This is funny. > >I've been following a thread in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc. >The title of the thread is "NetBSD camp reaction to OpenBSD?". >It seems that some of the NetBSD people rejected a person named Theo >De Raadt from the core development team, and that person went out and >created another distribution called OpenBSD (http://www.openbsd.org/). >So I agree with the person who called BSD a "Developer's Guild". >It just doesn't seem that open to me when the developers of an >operating system kick someone out of the development environment. yes but that doesn't change what I was saying.. what the bulk of the guys doing NetBSD, and THeo have is a PERSONALITY problem.. it's not that he was technically a problem, He's good, but that they had a fight over something.. It doesn't affect whether or not you can get FreeBSD on a daily basis.. It's a total red herring to what we were talking about.. OK what would LINUX do if someone kept insisting on doing something that all the big linux names thought was wrong..?? What if this person kept going into the central Linux repository at sunsite.whatever and changed things, in a way that everybody else didn't like? how would the linux community handle this? that's not an exact analogy, but the problem is the same.. > >Included below are some articles that may be of interesting reading: sure reading's ALWAYS interesting.. > [..] deleted one article .. where person A says it's sad.. [...] and another > >As for the "openness" of FreeBSD development, I refer you (again) to the >following threads from comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc: > [...] someone comments that they like the CVS tree being available.. >| >| I'd really like to see this for NetBSD/FreeBSD, too. As an example, it >| would make it much easier to look at John Dyson's work on the VM >| system without having to ask someone to check out all these changes. [...] I would like to point out that the CVS tree IS avaliable to anyone who asks for it.. It's not thrown out in the anon FTP area, but you can get it by SUP by just asking. SUP and FTP both have significant LOADS on the system so we try not to do TOO much of this.. We are just getting around this by making regional mirrors that you can SUP or FTP from, and hopefully with this change we'll be able to better make the tree available.. > Jordan replied.. >| >| Let's ask the NetBSD Project: What do you say, guys? A year or so ago, >| both groups shut down mutual read access for fears both real and >| imagined. What's our situation today? Anyone over there having >| seditious thoughts about tearing down the Berlin wall? I personally >| would not mind at all. >| -- >| Jordan > > >So far, there has been *NO* announcement of the opening of the CVS >tree. you know, If NetBSD had asked for it any time in the last year, it probably would have been given to them.. the Steam seems to have gone out of the argument.. but even at the worst time, however they had access to an up-to date FreeBSD source tree, and we had an up-to date NetBSD tree on Freefall too. It's updated every night, as is theirs I believe.. Does this sound so UN-OPEN to you? It's a hell of a lot better than you can get from linux.. so Don't throw stones, you live in a glass house.. > >Summary: You have to be a member of the BSD core team to be able >to see any real changes in the source code. Membership is restricted >to a select group, and if your not in that group, tough luck. Even >if your a good programmer, but other people in the group don't >like you, you can get kicked out. Not exactly what I call "open" or >a conductive development environment. BULLSHIT! No-one would DREAM of stopping Theo from having FULL ACCESS to both FreeBSD and NetBSD sources.. We might stop taking his contributions but he is always welcome to integrate his changes into a copy of our tree himself and make that available.. this is effectively what happenned. NetBSD sources are available to Theo Theo's sources are available to netBSD Both are available to FreeBSD and FreeBSD is available to Both of them. I fail to see what is CLOSED about this arangement (except that it's a closed graph) What if redhat or slackware reject a contribution from you? what do you do then? c'mon.. It's IDENTICAL HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SPELL THIS OUT? I take sources every day and watch the changes.. I don't see how being a couple of hours behind the central sources makes it UN-OPEN. > >Personally, I prefer Linux. Hey Linux is neat but Why do you keep insisting that BSD isn't eady to work with? have you TRIED? > >Of course, all of this has nothing to do with the technical merits >of the two operating systems. But then again, that's never stopped >an advocacy group before. :) > >(in followups, please be sure to include CORRECT attribution lines. >I don't want to be coming back later on and trying to claim >that I did or didn't make certain statements). > >Take care, >-- Nick Kralevich > nickkral@cory.eecs.berkeley.edu >