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From: dillon@best.com (Matt Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: New Install / Observations & Gripes
Date: 8 Jan 1996 01:35:09 -0800
Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. (info@best.com)
Lines: 158
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4cqogd$97e@blob.best.net>
References: <DKup49.M1t@bnr.ca> <4cqk44$3gt@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blob.best.net
:In article <4cqk44$3gt@agate.berkeley.edu>,
:Jordan K. Hubbard <jkh@violet.berkeley.edu> wrote:
:>In article <DKup49.M1t@bnr.ca>, Barry Friedman <friedman@bnr.ca> wrote:
:>>First of all my cdrom is on a soundblaster which had it's port address
:>>set to 0x340 which defaulted to mcd1 instead of mcd0. So my first reaction
:>>to the install procedure which was "WOW - this is a SYSTEM!" (After
:>
:>Yeah, I know, this is a pain.
:>
:>Just by way of explanation, the original intention was indeed to enable
:>sysinstall to recognise *either* mcd1 or mcd0 (or scd0/scd1, matcd0/matcd1,
:...
Since we are on the subject, I might as well pass on my praise and gripes
re: installing the distribution.
First the praise: For all the pain you are about to hear, I still think
FreeBSD is one of the easier OS's to install :-)
Now the pain: Two installations I had to do.
Installation #1:
Had a dead FreeBSD machine, and I mean dead... hard
errors all over it's poor quantum. Decided to load a new disk up with
FreeBSD from a second machine.
ok, so I get the new disk (a 4 GB barracuda), and connect it up to
a second, working FreeBSD machine as SCSI device 1. I say "Great!,
I can just use /stand/sysinstall to configure the new disk".
I'll give you three guesses as to what hapenned when I tried to use
/stand/sysinstall to configure the new disk.
Problem #1: Even though I very carefully selected sd1 from sysinstall,
it still blew away sd0. I think this must be the problem you mentioned
you fixed regarding blowing away the boot sector on sd0.
Problem #2: F12@#$@##$%#$@%$^^% @##@$ @#$#%^$#% Disk @$%$#$%^ Geometry.
The problem? First it complains that the disk geometry will not work
with dos. Fine, I'll change the geomtry... 'G'.. blah blah blah...
commit, exit sysinstall, re-enter. Second, it complains that the
disk geometry will not work with dos. In fact, it looks like the
disk geometry is exactly the same as it was before. My changes didn't
stick in any way shape or form. In fact, after about the fifth attempt,
I finally give up. In fact, I have yet to be able to configure ANY
SCSI disk with the default DOS partitioning and get something that
actually boots.
Problem #3: I'm not dumb, but it took about a dozen reboots to finally
get a disk that would boot into FreeBSD. Most of the problem is that
I would have the partitions setup fine and disk populated just fine,
but the boot program would fail to boot from the FreeBSD partition
I selected. I tried about 50 different combinations and the only
thing that worked in the end was to disconnect sd0, reconfigure sd1's
SCSI address to 0, and do an install from scratch with a freebsd-only
partition.
Problem #4: sysinstall gets really confused on the VTY's if you
run it manually from /stand. I mean REALLY confused... you have
to type in one VTY, the graphics are thrown up into another, and
requesters are thrown up into a third. What a mess.
Last Gripe on installation #1: There is no way to tell sysinstall to
install a minimal, and I mean *truely* minimal system. It insists on
installing a bare minimum that includes an incredible pile of material
not only in root, but also in /usr.
It would be nice if you could tell it to JUST install the 5-10 MB
required to populate /... to the point where you can boot the
thing in single user boot from the HD and continue the process from
that. It is *really* annoying to have an install fail multiple
times and have to reboot from floppy every single time!
Installation #2:
ok, installation #2 was a FreeBSD 2.1 install of my home machine
from scratch. After learning my lesson from previous installs, I
first tar'd off all 2 or so GB of material on my machine to DAT,
intending to completely reinstall FreeBSD from scratch.. repartitioning
the disk etc etc etc.
ok, so I boot from the appropriate floppy and it goes right into
sysinstall. Great. I don't try to use a DOS compatible partition...
the whole disk will be used by FreeBSD. That worked... didn't have
to worry about geometry except to make sure that the root partition
fit in < 1024 cylinders (it doesn't tell you).
ok, part 2: Installing from an FTP site. Got my handy 28.8 modem,
sysinstall lets me dialup with ppp and get a connection, etc etc
etc...
Problem #1: Sometimes it takes a couple of tries to get the link
working right.. problems from simple routing issues to DNS not being.
There is NO way to test link integrity without having sysinstall
try to connect to an FTP site and watching it fail. This only works
a few times before sysinstall looses it's mind and crashes. Also,
if you try to redo some of the earlier menu options, or even if you
don't, it often disconnects your working, running PPP link and asks
for all that information again, requiring you to dial in and get it
all working... again. I only had to do that half a dozen times :-(
Problem #2: So you get a connection and you try to install a minimal
dist. This is about 5 hours on a 28.8 modem. If ANY download dies in
the middle, you have no choice but to START COMPLETELY OVER FROM
SCRATCH!!! You are 3 hours into the install and BANG, it dies... guess
what? Yup, start all over again.
Problem #3: It is not possible to cancel an operation due to a
routing or destination failure or modem disconnection. If you hit
cancel, sysinstall reboots the machine!!!! E-Gad! We really, really,
really need a 'retry this operation' mechaism.
Problem #4: The minimal installation would finish creating a
bootable, working root disk until multiple HOURS into the install.
--
So, my suggestions:
* Have sysinstall not only warn you about disk geometries, but also
give you a 'default' geometry that actually works with DOS and,
especially, warn you if the root partition is unbootable due to
being larger then cylinder 1024.
* When something fails in sysinstall, give the user the option of
retrying.
* Split the minimal installation part into two parts. Part 1 would
be to make a fully single-user-mode bootable root disk. No /usr,
just /, and just required programs, and then require that the
machine be rebooted. The machine would reboot into sysinstall
from the HD and you would continue your install. This minimal
install would load up / with perhaps 5 MB of stuff and have
most of the standard system programs such as ping, ps, rsh, rcp,
tar, etc... i.e. all of /sbin and most of /bin.
Without this, you have to wait for multiple hours before you can
even test whether your machine will boot into FreeBSD.
The second part would install the rest of /, /usr, and other dists.
* Keep track of what has been installed and don't require that it
be reinstalled completely from scratch. Preferably on a file by
file basis. This would make installation over a modem a whole lot
easier.
* Make sysinstall truely disk independant... I want to be able to load
up sd1 with a fully working distribution so I can move the physical
disk to another machine and boot from it. Right now, if the disk
you are installing isn't sd0, you get screwed royally.
-Matt
--
Matthew Dillon Engineering, BEST Internet Communications, Inc.
<dillon@best.net>
[always include a portion of the original email in any response!]