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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.bhp.com.au!mel.dit.csiro.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.ysu.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!news.ossi.com!netserv.com!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.erols.com!news.bconnex.net!felix.junction.net!not-for-mail From: michael@memra.com (Michael Dillon) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy Subject: Re: Historic Opportunity facing Free Unix (was Re: The Lai/Baker paper, benchmarks, and the world of free UNIX) Date: 20 Apr 1996 00:16:56 -0700 Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting - http://www.memra.com Lines: 54 Message-ID: <4la318$ah3@sidhe.memra.com> References: <NELSON.96Apr15010553@ns.crynwr.com> <3175DBD4.167EB0E7@FreeBSD.org> <4l5f31$ijv@solaria.cc.gatech.edu> <3176D081.794BDF32@FreeBSD.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: sidhe.memra.com Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.development.system:21587 comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc:639 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:3259 comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:3088 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:17508 comp.os.linux.advocacy:45950 In article <3176D081.794BDF32@FreeBSD.org>, Jordan K. Hubbard <jkh@FreeBSD.org> wrote: >That's why I react so strongly when I see these various posts saying >"hey, all we have to do is sit down and IMPLEMENT a THIS and a THAT and >before you know it we'll have Bill down on his knees, begging for >mercy." It makes me fairly want to scream "WHO?! Just WHO is going to >do this? YOU? Can you spend 50 hours a week on it? For a minimum of >12 weeks? Will you MANAGE it?" [by "you" I also don't mean you, Jeff, I >simply mean the generic "you" who always seems to volunteer for the most >work but never actually shows up on the appointed day. :-) The fact is that the successful collaborative software development projects up to now have been mostly systems level stuff like *BSD, Linux, X, wxWindows and so on. If we can collect a core team of people who are willing to manage an *APPLICATIONS* development project using the same collaborative techniques, then we can tap into the skills of people who are reasonably good programmers but don't have the mindset to dig into SCSI driver race conditions and VM paging systems etc... These really are two separate groups of people so I don't think it would have any negative effects on the *BSD or Linux projects. >It would be lovely if a Windows-beating desktop suddenly appeared, >believe me (and Caldera really doesn't count since all they did was >license a commercial product which the free software world can't HAVE), And it is far, far, far from a Windows beating desktop. More like a ho-hum checkoff item in the buyer's requirements list. >Look, perhaps it's time for all the desktop adherants here to simply >prove me wrong (or right). Form an OS-independant (so as to attract the >greatest number of bodies) subproject *right now* who's stated goal is >to take on Microsoft head-on in the desktop arena. Let's leave Microsoft out of it. Let's just say that the goal is to develop free applications software suites that will run on the free UNIX systems and possibly other OSes as well. >doomed vaporware project. In other words, let's stop talking about it >and see the desktop devotees actually DO IT. > >If you can't galvanize that kind of energy behind such a project and see >it through to the bitter end, however that might go, then this >conversation is entirely moot anyway! Yep. You are right about that. -- Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022 Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com