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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.rmit.EDU.AU!news.unimelb.EDU.AU!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!qns3.qns.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!cc.gatech.edu!cc.gatech.edu!byron From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy Subject: Re: Historic Opportunity facing Free Unix (was Re: The Lai/Baker paper, benchmarks, and the world of free UNIX) Date: 18 Apr 1996 20:51:03 GMT Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology - College of Computing Lines: 108 Message-ID: <4l69vn$jb@solaria.cc.gatech.edu> References: <4ki055$60l@Radon.Stanford.EDU> <4l0fv9$1bfs@news.missouri.edu> <4l2u61$fdg@solaria.cc.gatech.edu> <4l4crd$nus@miso.cs.uq.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: gemini.cc.gatech.edu NNTP-Posting-User: byron Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.development.system:21876 comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc:727 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:3367 comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:3208 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:17781 comp.os.linux.advocacy:46462 In article <4l4crd$nus@miso.cs.uq.edu.au>, Warwick Allison <warwick@cs.uq.edu.au> wrote: >byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) writes: > >>Word6 >>Word6 >>Word6 >>Word6 >>Word6 >>Word6 >>Word6 > >Too short sighted. Did Netscape go and write a Word6 compatible WWW >browser? No. Applications *don't* live forever (Word6 cannot load Word3 >documents, for example). Netscape didn't need to. However look at the large number of Word6 to HTML converters. Very few Windows users write web pages to begin with and those that do write in Word and convert to HTML or use a graphical HTML editor. Only unix folks do 'cat > index.html'. Face it. Microsoft has a stanglehold on WP on the desktop. If you can't interoperate with their format, there is no hope of making inroads into the desktop market. > >We *MUST* base our applications on open standards (eg. HTML, not Word6), >or we will be forever dragging behind the proprietor of the standard. >That is fundamental. Agreed. We need to flank by promoting a standard format, but we also have to interoperate with the existing format too. A standalone converter is fine. But if your application cannot deal with the format that several billion documents are in, you can't compete because you're not even in the ballpark. Typical conversation between a free Unix advocate and a potential new user: Advocate: With FreeUnix you get 32 bit, multiuser, multitasking, and seemless built-in networking, along with X-windows YADAYADAYADA.... PNU: I have 1000 word 6 documents and another 500 excel spreadsheets. I also do Quicken and MS-Mail with attachments. Will free Unix help me? Advocate: Not exactly... YADAYADAYADA The PNU has already tuned out the advocate. Free Unix isn't for them because it doesn't do what they're used to doing. Both Microsoft and Intel understand that you cannot grow without keeping the existing legacy base. the 8086 is based on the 8080 so that the existing CMP code base could easily be translated. You can take a program that was written under DOS 2.0 and run it on a Pentium under 95 or NT. While old applications and old formats are phased out, compatibility is still maintained. It is fundamental to move to an open standard, I agree, but we have to be able to support the monumental existing base of documents and spreadsheets while we transition to the next phase. We should also beat Microsoft to the punch be introducing a free open standard for documents and other files along with the tools for creating, editing and converting existing documents into the new format. And unlike microsoft we'll have tools that run under '95 and NT for these tasks. That's how to assult the desktop. > >A free WWW Netscapegold-like product (or simply NetScape Gold - it's the >editor one, right?) could subvert the Word6 market. If someone sends you >a Word6 file, tell them you want it in HTML instead (they can get a free >Word6 modulethingy for writing out in HTML, I understand). Many users either won't or can't do it. They don't understand the process and will become easily frustrated at the process. They will ask the legitimate question "Why can't you just use the .doc attachment that I send you? Everyone else can read and print it, why can't you? Why must I convert? Don't you use Word?" Trust me I've been in this conversation as recently as 2 weeks ago. We need both the long term and the short term. We need to cut Redmond off at the pass just like NetScape did with the Web. If you dictate the marketplace instead of following you can win the war. So I'll amend to the following strategy: - Come up with a free/open file formats for documents, spreadsheets and other file formats. - Create a free application that operates in that format plus can import (and export) documents in common current formats (Word 6 in particular or even RTF) Make sure the application is available for all common systems. Standalone converts for this is fine. - Promote the hell out of it. Just remember folks for the average user it's all about applications. If you give the user the application they use all the time, they will not care in the least about the hardware, OS, or anything else. If you can do it for free, you've got 'em just as long as it interoperates with what they're used to. BAJ -- Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of... Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux! Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu