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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.rmit.EDU.AU!news.unimelb.EDU.AU!munnari.OZ.AU!news.hawaii.edu!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!news.uh.edu!lurch.sccsi.com!news.sccsi.com!dial30.trip.net!user From: cyclone@cycland.net (Cyclone) Newsgroups: alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc,alt.binaries.warez.mac,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.msdos.misc,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.acorn.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.machten,comp.unix.pc-clone.16bit,comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.solaris,comp.unix.user-friendly Subject: Re: FIVE GOOD REASONS WHY IBM'S ARE BETTER THAN MACS (only five?) Followup-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.msdos.misc,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 15:54:49 -0500 Organization: Mentos: The FRESHMAKER Lines: 202 Distribution: inet Message-ID: <cyclone-2104961554500001@dial30.trip.net> References: <Cyclone-0504961737500001@dial24.trip.net> <31678d59.1170056@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <4k8hkj$o0u@cloner3.netcom.com> <sonikd-0804960027040001@cmh-p062.infinet.com> <avi-0904962303220001@cyber128.cyberspc.mb.ca> <316c1d48.41833268@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <John_Warwick-1004962314430001@news.mindlink.net> <4kq463$7a4@informer1.cis.mcmaster.ca> <Pine.A32.3.91.960417014401.76675F-100000@green.weeg.uiowa.edu> <chrisc-1904961301260001@ppp-69.cet.com> <4lccdm$8pf@janis.virago.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial30.trip.net X-Header-Of-Some-Sort: Note, I'm wasting bandwidth. NYAH! X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.1 Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc:35131 alt.binaries.warez.mac:3414 comp.os.linux.advocacy:46716 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:124863 comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy:22791 comp.os.msdos.misc:53871 comp.os.os2.advocacy:195752 comp.sys.acorn.advocacy:8667 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:101298 comp.sys.next.advocacy:34980 comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy:3029 comp.unix.advocacy:19889 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:17933 comp.unix.bsd.misc:808 comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:3280 comp.unix.machten:2311 comp.unix.pc-clo ne.16bit:712 comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit:9269 comp.unix.shell:31913 comp.unix.solaris:66712 comp.unix.user-friendly:3644 [Rachel, for all her computer knowledge, could not trim her newsgroups. <sigh>] In article <4lccdm$8pf@janis.virago.org.au>, r.polanskis@nepean.uws.edu.au,grove@zeta.org.au wrote: > when it comes to support, the Mac is a NIGHTMARE. In five years I've made one tech support call and this was because my b-tree was thrashed and I lacked MacTools or Norton. >Reason: It is a BLACK BOX. You cannot reconfigure a driver to get around > a defective piece of hardware, nor can you enter the system in > the same way as you can a PC if the software configuration is > wrong or broken. If you want to make a system disk on a PC, I just unplug the harware. Is that so hard? Internal hardware? Mac recognizes it (usually) and ignores the thing. Wrong settings? Open the control panel. > to bypass the C: drive the function is supported no matter what > PC you use. On a Mac you must have the OS available (not always > possible) and then if you do have a boot disk, there is no > guarantee it will work anyway because it may not be the same > architecture as the Mac you are trying to rescue. This is where getting a small 80 meg external SCSI comes in handy. Plug-n-save! Do it all the time. Also allows you to put a universal system and MacTools Pro onto it for better chances of getting it all back. > You might need to have Norton handy, which costs - and even then > it is not always handy either... What *IS* always handy? Different problems need different solutions. > If you have a hardware failure on a Mac, it's off to the repair > shop, with all your work, and your files and maybe it just > happens to be your office too. Macs are expensive to repair Hardware problems are rare. Again, five years and no problems. > because the parts have to come from a PROPRIETRY SOURCE, and parts > are not always available. Through this time, you are without a > machine, maybe for WEEKS. See above. > A PC however can have the offending component removed and > replaced in a few hours and you are back on line. Discounting head > crashes of course which can affect any machine. ... because it is and has been made by 200 seperate companies. Apple is going there, but for now I've only seen one hardware problem and that was an LC580 whose ADB port fried (thunderstorm) and the power-on key isn't recognized. Could happen to anybody and the repairs cost about $20 in parts and $50 in labor and took two days. > Hardware wise the Macintrash is a real bother - especially when > it is a mission critical situation. The above was on press night for our monthly paper. We double-loaded the PowerMac 6100/60 and came out on-time (actually, we were so scared, we worked faster and came out one hour ahead of time). >2: Mac Users are the first to put their hands up for help when > problems strike. Ahem. One tech-support call. >Reason: > Macs do not teach people about computers. Macs do not teach people > good computing practices as a side effect. Oh this is rich. Name one "good computing practice." > People on a PC learn Disk Management and the importance of > correct file naming techniques and formats, as it is important to > the architecture of the MSDOS O/S. Right. And the Mac let's you organize the same way. My HD is partitioned for organization, my folders are setup to keep related items together, and should I change my mind, click-drag-done. > Consequently, it is far easier to demonstrate the benefits and > theory of MIME file naming conventions to a PC user as they already > are familiar with file extension, for example. > Macs do not teach Disk Management as the user is free to stuff > files and "folders" where they like, without regard for any kind Bullshit. > of hierarchical structure. The Finder does it all for them, and > many Mac users don't even know how to use that... Outright lie. I know of no one that did not learn the Finder in under five minutes. > Macs do not teach good file management standards - You may make a > file any arbitrary length (up to 32 chars) and it may include > spaces or other non standard character types. > This wreaks havoc with UNIX and MSDOS O/S as they cannot support > this witchery without great pain. While Mac users pat themselves > on the back for the "friendly" file conventions - any kind of > interoperability with other systems is precluded. Examples include > PC/Unix users having to deal with Binhex, or truncated file names > with missing extensions (or too many extensions) which spoils > registration/association info databases - such as found in MSWindows. Copy a Mac file onto a floppy and the access software converts it for you. Any smart Mac user knows of the limiting file system the IBM has and can alter the name to something cryptic like MYDOC156.MSD instead of "My Documentation - v. 1.56". Can you make your names LESS cryptic for us? Nope. > The result is that PC users struggle to load files received in > email attachments that have no standard extension that either > they or their system can identify meaning that the use of helper > programs to do autoloading of files is prevented. That's YOUR limitation and YOUR fault. Don't blame us if you can't support better technology than the 8.3 naming system (what bozo thought that up, anyway? Oh yeah, Gates. That explains it all). > The other spinoff to this is that the mac users themselves are > oblivious to the fact they are causing problems - and too > shortsighted to anticipate the existence of other Systems. > Mac Users do not know how to spell PORTABILITY or INTEROPERABILITY. > The training of Mac Users in these and the above concepts is > thwarted because of the laxness the Mac O/S allows in file/disk > management strategies. I always am considerate of other systems and make my filenames cryptic if they need to go to another system. Mostly I use UNIX and Mac so that involves lower case and substituting_underscores_for_spaces. It's not hard *nor* uncommon for a Mac user to do this. > Macs are *not* contrary to popular belief more sophisticated for > this reason. The structures used are PROPRIETRY and therefore not > allowed to be released to other O/Ss. UNIX always had long file names. Is that proprietery? Everyone uses it, don't blame US for YOUR system's short-sightedness and limitations. > Apart from file and Disk management issues - which seem to be > very common calls for help I receive when a Mac user misplaces a > file, or a PC user receives a Mac attachment with a mangled > filename, the very abstraction of the Mac O/S itself often hinders > both the user and the sysop who looks after the machine. > > This is true because the GUI of the Mac is *not* intuitive as we > are lead to believe - and the single button mouse and combination of > accelerator keys is not very clear to the average user. > Many of the combinations are non standard even across Windows and > Mac software of the same type (eg. Word processors) cmd-q -Q-uit (That's not obvious at all) cmd-s -S-ave (Ohmigawd! How'd they get that?) cmd-w close -W-indow (Oh man, this is too complicated!) alt-f4 Close window/exit application (So obvious) alt-ctl-f4 Exit Windows (Why didn't we think of that?) As for cross-platform standards, blame MS and Adobe and the rest of 'em. >I could go on - but i won't. I think I have made my point, but the Mac is >*not* suited to the Mission Critical or heavy usage office environment. >(Neither is the PC, but it *is* a little better). Uhh... Sure, whatever. > While I support macs and Pc's and consider myself proficient in > both (Windows has it's problems too - *I KNOW*) - at both the > Hardware and software levels, My preferred Operating Systems at >home? : > >SPARC Solaris and Linux. >My home is Apple free and Microsoft free. Aren't you special? At least she's smart enough to prefer Linux... =) >Never Trust a Computer that Smiles at You. ??? Okay.... >"When the revolution comes, I will be shot by both sides" No comment... +--------------------+----------------------------------------------+ | A. Knight | http://www2.trip.net/~aknight/ | +--------------------+----------------------------------------------+ | Do you believe in Macintosh? Subscribe to EvangeList, Guy Kawasa- | | ki's mailing list! To subscribe send an email to | | evangelist@macway.com. | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ "I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." -- Sir Isaac Newton