*BSD News Article 68738


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From: nickkral@equuleus.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Nick Kralevich)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Advocacy in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc (was Re: Linux vs. FreeBSD ...)
Date: 17 May 1996 04:19:06 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Computer Science Department, University of California at Berkeley
Lines: 348
Message-ID: <4ngunq$oeu@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <3188C1E2.45AE@onramp.net> <4n7mp1$217@jraynard.demon.co.uk> <4n8jin$htl@agate.berkeley.edu> <319BD8E3.10D67C49@lambert.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: equuleus.eecs.berkeley.edu

In article <319BD8E3.10D67C49@lambert.org>,
Terry Lambert  <terry@lambert.org> wrote:
>] The purpose of a *.misc group is to cover any topic that isn't
>] directly covered by another newsgroup.
>
>The purpose of comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc is *NOT* to "cover any
>topic that isn't directly covered by another newsgroup.  Read
>the UVV posted charter for the group.  It is not an advocacy
>group.

The following is taken from 
ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/comp/comp.unix.bsd-reorg
It is heavily edited to bring out the important points.  

----- Begin -----
From: Kaleb Keithley <kaleb@x.org>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.announce,comp.os.386bsd.apps,comp.os.386bsd.bugs,comp.os.386bsd.development,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.os.386bsd.questions
Subject: RFD: comp.unix.bsd reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 23 Nov 1994 15:10:48 -0500

SUMMARY:

    Create fourth levels in comp.unix.bsd: c.u.b.{386bsd,bsdi,freebsd,netbsd}
    Create topic groups:                   comp.unix.bsd.*
    After a transition period:             delete comp.os.386bsd


NEW GROUPS:

    The proposal is to create nine new groups. They are:

    comp.unix.bsd.misc
    comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc
    comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.announce
    comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc
    comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.announce
    comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
    comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce -- moderated by Jordan Hubbard
    comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc
    comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.announce  -- moderated by Chris Demetriou

    *.386bsd.announce and *.bsdi.announce groups need moderators. In the 
    event that no volunteers step forward during the RFD the announce 
    groups will be withdrawn from the RFD and CFV.

    Jordan Hubbard -- jkh@freefall.cdrom.com
    Chris Demetriou -- cgd@alpha.bostic.com or cgd@agate.berkeley.edu


RATIONALE:

    There are now at least four independent variations of operating 
    systems derived from UC Berkeley's BSD Net2 and/or 4.4lite UNIX source 
    distributions. Currently discussion of these four fall into either 
    comp.unix.bsd or one of the comp.os.386bsd groups. c.o.386bsd.* was 
    originally intended for discussion about Bill and Lynn Jolitz' 
    particular derivative, known as 386BSD. Over the past two years two 
    splinter groups have spun off variations of 386BSD known as FreeBSD
    and NetBSD; and BSDI, Inc. has a commercial offering known as BSD/OS, 
    formerly known as BSD/386. 

    Discussion specific to 386BSD has tapered off to near nil as the 
    original authors have apparently ceased to support it. Most traffic 
    in the existing comp.os.386bsd groups centers around either FreeBSD 
    or NetBSD and occasionally BSDI's BSD/OS.

    It seems that the BSD user community might be better served by having 
    groups specifically related to the variation that they are using. 
    Despite their common ancestry, the differences between the goals and 
    feature sets are quite wide, and it is often confusing to differentiate 
    between them when discussion is all lumped into the same group. 
    Furthermore, NetBSD has, and FreeBSD will soon have, support for other 
    architectures, so grouping them in a hierarchy whose name suggests 
    that it is devoted to the Intel x86 family is definitely inappropriate.

    While comp.os.386bsd currently has several groups in its hierarchy, the
    current level of 386BSD specific traffic in them doesn't seem to warrant 
    replicating those groups under this proposal. Additional groups can be
    added in the future as needs dictate.


CHARTERS:

[deleted]
    comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce:

        This newsgroup is for announcements relating to the FreeBSD
        operating system. Things appropriate for the .announce group
        would include announcements of new versions of FreeBSD,
        announcements of major software releases (both commercial
        and freely redistributable) for FreeBSD (e.g. new version of 
        X11 for FreeBSD), announcements of fixes for major bugs, and 
        the like.  FAQs relating to FreeBSD should also be cross-posted 
        to this group.

    comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:

        Discussion about FreeBSD which does not fall into the area
        of coverage of any of the other freebsd groups.  Things posted 
        here should not be crossposted to the other freebsd groups.

[deleted]

From: ikluft@amdahl.com (Ian Kluft)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.os.386bsd.announce,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.apps,comp.os.386bsd.bugs,comp.os.386bsd.development,comp.os.386bsd.questions
Subject: CFV: comp.unix.bsd reorganization
Date: 26 Jan 1995 18:02:23 -0500
Organization: UVV - UseNet Volunteer Votetakers

                           FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
                          COMP.UNIX.BSD  REORGANIZATION

unmoderated group comp.unix.bsd.misc
  - replaces comp.unix.bsd
unmoderated group comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc
  - replaces comp.os.386bsd.{apps|bugs|development|misc|questions}
moderated group   comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.announce
  - replaces comp.os.386bsd.announce
unmoderated group comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc
moderated group   comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.announce
unmoderated group comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
moderated group   comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce
unmoderated group comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc
moderated group   comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.announce


Newsgroups lines:
comp.unix.bsd.misc              BSD operating systems
comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc       386BSD operating system
comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.announce   announcements pertaining to 386BSD
comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc         BSD/OS operating system
comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.announce     announcements pertaining to BSD/OS
comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc      FreeBSD operating system
comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce  announcements pertaining to FreeBSD
comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc       NetBSD operating system
comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.announce   announcements pertaining to NetBSD

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 GMT, 16 February 1995.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only contact Ian Kluft (ikluft@amdahl.com).  For questions about
the proposed groups contact Kaleb Keithley (kaleb@x.org).


OFFICIAL SOURCES OF THE CFV

The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the UseNet newsgroups
to which it is posted including news.announce.newgroups and the e-mail server
at bsd-cfv-request@amdahl.com.


CHARTERS

[deleted]

    comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce:

        Moderated by Jordan Hubbard <jkh@freefall.cdrom.com>

        This newsgroup is for announcements relating to the FreeBSD
        operating system. Things appropriate for the .announce group
        would include announcements of new versions of FreeBSD,
        announcements of major software releases (both commercial
        and freely redistributable) for FreeBSD (e.g. new version of
        X11 for FreeBSD), announcements of fixes for major bugs, and
        the like.  FAQs relating to FreeBSD should also be cross-posted
        to this group.

    comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:

        Discussion about FreeBSD which does not fall into the area
        of coverage of any of the other freebsd groups.  Things posted
        here should not be crossposted to the other freebsd groups.

[deleted]

From: ikluft@amdahl.com (Ian Kluft)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.os.386bsd.announce,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.apps,comp.os.386bsd.bugs,comp.os.386bsd.development,comp.os.386bsd.questions
Subject: RESULT: comp.unix.bsd reorganization passes
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 20 Feb 1995 14:56:42 -0500
Organization: UVV - UseNet Volunteer Votetakers

                                     RESULT
                          COMP.UNIX.BSD  REORGANIZATION

Voting for the comp.unix.bsd reorganization vote ended 23:59:59 GMT,
16 February 1995.  This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  For
questions about voting procedures only contact Ian Kluft <ikluft@amdahl.com>.
For questions about the newsgroups contact Kaleb Keithley <kaleb@x.org>.

There were 426 valid votes submitted during the voting period.  Each proposed
newsgroup, in order to pass, must have at least 2/3 YES votes and at least
100 more YES than NO votes.  The results are as follows:

comp.unix.bsd reorganization results - 426 valid votes

 Yes   No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
 341   64 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.unix.bsd.misc
 285   87 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc
 291   84 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.announce
 305   69 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc
 312   70 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.announce
 334   68 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
 338   69 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce
 332   67 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc
 332   70 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.announce
  10 invalid votes

All parts of the proposal passed.

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.  If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups will create the newsgroups shortly thereafter.

The following newsgroups will be removed on 22 May 1995.
   comp.unix.bsd		(replaced by comp.unix.bsd.misc)
   comp.os.386bsd.apps		(replaced by comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc)
   comp.os.386bsd.bugs		(replaced by comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc)
   comp.os.386bsd.development	(replaced by comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc)
   comp.os.386bsd.misc		(replaced by comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc)
   comp.os.386bsd.questions	(replaced by comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc)
   comp.os.386bsd.announce	(replaced by comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.announce)

The remainder of the results contains
   Newsgroups Lines
   Charters
   Final Voting Acknowledgements
   Voting Analysis

NEWSGROUPS LINES

comp.unix.bsd.misc              BSD operating systems.
comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc       386BSD operating system.
comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.announce   announcements pertaining to 386BSD.
comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc         BSD/OS operating system.
comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.announce     announcements pertaining to BSD/OS.
comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc      FreeBSD operating system.
comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce  announcements pertaining to FreeBSD.
comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc       NetBSD operating system.
comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.announce   announcements pertaining to NetBSD.

CHARTERS

[deleted]

    comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce:

        Moderated by Jordan Hubbard <jkh@freefall.cdrom.com>

        This newsgroup is for announcements relating to the FreeBSD
        operating system. Things appropriate for the .announce group
        would include announcements of new versions of FreeBSD,
        announcements of major software releases (both commercial
        and freely redistributable) for FreeBSD (e.g. new version of
        X11 for FreeBSD), announcements of fixes for major bugs, and
        the like.  FAQs relating to FreeBSD should also be cross-posted
        to this group.

    comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:

        Discussion about FreeBSD which does not fall into the area
        of coverage of any of the other freebsd groups.  Things posted
        here should not be crossposted to the other freebsd groups.

[deleted]

comp.unix.bsd reorganization Final Vote Ack

                                    comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.announce -----------+
                                        comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc ----------+|
                                   comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce ---------+||
                                       comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc --------+|||
                                      comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.announce -------+||||
                                          comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc ------+|||||
                                    comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.announce -----+||||||
                                        comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc ----+|||||||
                                               comp.unix.bsd.misc ---+||||||||
                                                                     |||||||||
[deleted]

terry@cs.weber.edu                                     Terry Lambert NNNNNNNNN

[deleted]

VOTING ANALYSIS

All dates and times in this section are in US Pacific Time.

The first vote arrived Thu Jan 26 15:12:15 1995.

  comp.unix.bsd.misc passed on Sun Jan 29 13:33:52 1995
  comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc passed on Mon Jan 30 17:57:24 1995
  comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.announce passed on Mon Jan 30 08:44:38 1995
  comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc passed on Mon Jan 30 01:36:09 1995
  comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.announce passed on Mon Jan 30 02:19:38 1995
  comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc passed on Sun Jan 29 13:43:31 1995
  comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce passed on Sun Jan 29 13:43:31 1995
  comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc passed on Sun Jan 29 13:43:31 1995
  comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.announce passed on Sun Jan 29 13:46:10 1995

The daily vote arrival rates are shown below with notes on factors which
could possibly or probably have affected them.  Also shown are the dates
>from above when each group crossed the threshold of passing.

26 Jan  27	1st CFV posted
27 Jan  75
28 Jan  40	weekend
29 Jan  44	weekend
		comp.unix.bsd.misc passes
		comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc passes
		comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce passes
		comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc passes
		comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.announce passes
30 Jan  61	2nd CFV posted
		comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc passes
		comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.announce passes
		comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc passes
		comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.announce passes
31 Jan  42
 1 Feb  34
 2 Feb  21
 3 Feb  14
 4 Feb   8	weekend
 5 Feb   9	weekend
 6 Feb  18
 7 Feb  14
 8 Feb  13
 9 Feb  10
10 Feb   6
11 Feb   5	weekend
12 Feb   7	weekend
13 Feb   9
14 Feb   6
15 Feb   4
16 Feb   2	voting ends

This vote was handled by a neutral third-party votetaker from the UseNet
Volunteer Votetakers (UVV).  http://www.amdahl.com/ext/uvv/


----- End -----

Take care,
-- Nick Kralevich
   nickkral@cory.eecs.berkeley.edu