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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mira.net.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.eng.convex.com!newshost.convex.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!theos.com!deraadt From: deraadt@theos.com (Theo de Raadt) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: followup from censored port-i386@Netbsd.ORG Date: 24 Jun 1996 14:27:01 GMT Organization: Theo Ports Kernels For Fun And Profit, Inc. Lines: 106 Distribution: world Message-ID: <DERAADT.96Jun24082701@zeus.theos.com> References: <DERAADT.96Jun23070919@zeus.theos.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.theos.com In-reply-to: deraadt@theos.com's message of 23 Jun 1996 13:09:19 GMT Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:3839 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:22071 I want to point something more out. I don't have a problem with NetBSD users, or with many of the developers. To pick an example, I am totally happy with the work that Ragge is doing in the vax port. Nifty stuff -- i gotta go buy myself a vax one day. Too, there are actually people who engage in both OpenBSD and NetBSD development (but some tell me it is with peril). But some of these people who are flaming me here in news hang out (day in, day out) with the NetBSD core on an private ICB server. They are operating from a certain level of bias, just as I am, I am sure. They say they don't speak for the NetBSD project. But think for yourself, read between the lines. Hmm, core isn't saying anything. But some random people are. Oh, they talk with core every day, as friends. Oh, wait, maybe they are speaking FOR CORE! Maybe the message they carry is simply core's message? Perhaps, perhaps not. You decide. There are a few people who are a problem. They know who they are, Charles, Chris, Herb, Jason, and yes, some of the people who have posted in this thread. (OpenBSD has an ICB server too, it is a great tool for developers to keep in touch with each other as they make changes, to talk, etc. In many cases this kind of forum often replaces mail.) Now, I don't CARE if these people talk for NetBSD `officially' or not. That's a technicality, isn't it? The effect is the same. Did some of these people not `sign' a NetBSD document that says they must BEHAVE? The document which I refused to sign because initially you wanted _only_ me to sign it? The document talked about in coremail? From what I hear, the NetBSD group has installed a program whereby they control their developers's actions, including declaring what they may or may not say in private mail. Yet they have REFUSED to deal with this issue properly. I communicated at some length with Christos over solving the problem, and nothing has happened. (I've got some neat quotes about this agreement, it's consequences, and people saying why parts of it exist.) What does this document say with respect to calling the members of another project `assholes'? If my ideas of what this document requires is incorrect, please somebody post a copy of it here. (read http://theos.com/~deraadt/coremail for more information on this agreement which was supposed to limit what I could privately say, in return for which I would get my access to the NetBSD CVS tree returned.) So, to these people I say: 1) You will not insult OpenBSD developers. 2) You will not insult me in private mail and hope I don't hear about it. It is quite likely that I will. The only reason you have not seen many of these posted is because I do not want you to hurt the people who forwarded these things to me. 3) You will not flame people who post to both OpenBSD and NetBSD mailing lists. 4) You will not flame people who talk about perhaps switching to OpenBSD (or any other operating system). Anymore than you would flame people who talk about switching to FreeBSD. 5) You will not put a negative swing on OpenBSD. OpenBSD is NetBSD PLUS MORE STUFF. More stuff every day. But most people still think OpenBSD is just the same as NetBSD. So every time you put a negative swing on OpenBSD, you are putting a negative swing on NetBSD. And of course on free BSD operating systems in general. In return I will promise to do the same. But first I have to see a sign that you guys are going to reform first. And if the last year and a half is anything to judge from... You simply don't go lambasting people working on other groups!! It has absolutely NO useful purpose! BTW, I quote from a piece of news in another group I spotted earlier today: > From: danielsi@io.com (Daniel A. Supernaw-Issen) > Newsgroups: comp.graphics.api.misc,comp.graphics.algorithms,comp.windows.x.i386unix,gnu.misc.discuss,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.development.apps > Subject: Re: Freeware community needs 3d library NOW > Date: 24 Jun 1996 07:36:52 -0500 > Message-ID: <4qm254$45v@shangri-la.io.com> > >[...] > Please do not activly seek to alienate developers of linux. I don't > care if you think his/her ideas are the rat's ass or not - many of > these people are responsible for a large amount of what you are > obviously taking for granted. Those of us who have been around in the > Linux community for a while remember the Ross Biro mess. Linux is a > truely good thing and actively chasing away those who seek to or have > already contributed to the community is a self-defeating, > shortsighted, and at the least impolite thing to do. Think about that. -- This space not left unintentionally unblank. deraadt@theos.com