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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!nntp.coast.net!sgigate.sgi.com!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!sun630.bentley.com!usenet From: Mark Hamstra <mark.hamstra@sullivan.bentley.com> Newsgroups: comp.graphics.api.misc,comp.graphics.algorithms,comp.windows.x.i386unix,gnu.misc.discuss,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.os.linux.development.apps Subject: Re: Freeware community needs 3d library NOW Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 14:00:40 -0700 Organization: Bentley Systems Lines: 61 Message-ID: <31D2F678.7091309D@sullivan.bentley.com> References: <4qlf04$7pj@guysmiley.blarg.net> <4qnkur$sr1@thor.xon.cuug.ab.ca> <4qt6im$ne9@guysmiley.blarg.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: sullivan.bentley.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.0 i586) Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.graphics.api.misc:655 comp.graphics.algorithms:29051 comp.windows.x.i386unix:20379 gnu.misc.discuss:26763 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:22297 comp.os.linux.development.apps:18132 Brandon J. Van Every wrote: > > Suffice it to say that people who are really > interested in 3d, aren't going to wait very long for the freeware > universe to get its act together. Sorry, Brandon, you're just plain wrong. People who are really interested in 3D right now are 3D developers and high-power users. These people are willing, and more or less able, to spend whatever it takes to get 3D hardware and software: their jobs require it. These people might look at freeware 3D if it could provide comparable performance; but if it doesn't exist, they won't miss it. Then there's three more groups: those of us who could make some use of 3D, but can't afford to spend much for it; those who could make use of 3D but have no idea what it is or how they might use it (I'm thinking primarily of Windoze gamers and netsurfers); and those who will never use 3D. This last group needs no further discussion. The second group isn't using freeware for the most part, and the existence of freeware 3D isn't likely to change their minds --they're mostly content to follow Micro$oft's lead. Those of us in the remaining group essentially want the functionality of a high-end 3D workstation at a price we can afford. Large numbers of us are designers: architects, engineers, etc. The tools we need to do our work are, for the most part, industry standard commercial apps. These are slowly making their way to Linux and other freeware platforms. 3D is decidedly an add-on and not a necessity --although that will change exactly as quickly as the price of 3D workstations changes. Waiting an extra year for 3D drivers for our cost-conscious workstations is no big deal if we can plug industry standard code in to them: i.e., what we really want is cost effective OpenGL or Direct3D (if that becomes the new standard). Trying to establish an independent 3D API that is not compatible with OpenGL and/or Direct3D is probably doomed to failure. An independent API will not catch M$ from behind: OpenGL will have a tough enough time holding its ground, a brand new API stands almost no chance. Another 'me too --only better and cheaper' solution from freeware developers would be most welcome and could help to promote Linux and other freeware OS's in the commercial arena: If I can put together a group of Linux-based 3D workstations running standard commercial apps (and a healthy selection of additional freeware apps) for substatially less than comparable commercial-OS-based solutions, then I've got something; If all I can get is standard apps running on Linux workstations with an unsupported, non-standard 3D API, then I'm no better off than I am at present. Ports of major commercial apps are not going to support an upstart, non-standard API: the availability of this API will thereby result in no increased functionality. The same goes for recreational users of new 3D apps, only more so. There is not enough of a standard 3D gamers API for the recreational user to care much about which API becomes standard: there is no legacy code base or substantial design investment to support. If Direct3D becomes the standard, then a freeware version is what is needed by these users. That's the only way to allow access to commercial code and any new freeware development. An independent freeware API is just not important. Mark