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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.ysu.edu!odin.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!avondale.demon.co.uk!avondale.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: jfhall@avondale.demon.co.uk (John F Hall) Newsgroups: demon.ip.support,demon.tech.unix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: Batch FTP and Web Pages Date: 2 Jul 1996 14:27:26 +0100 Organization: - Lines: 53 Message-ID: <4rb83u$5gd@avondale.demon.co.uk> References: <31D4AA3A.BC0@www.play-hookey.com> <4r71bs$bpt@newsgate.duke.edu> <Snews.960701.180806.chris.7414@keris.demon.co.uk> <31D87436.7C7F@www.play-hookey.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: avondale.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: avondale.demon.co.uk In article <31D87436.7C7F@www.play-hookey.com>, Ken Bigelow <kbigelow@www.play-hookey.com> wrote: >I've been having an e-mail discussion of this with Ian Stirling, who is >connected to Demon. We've batted it back and forth a number of times, and I >still don't see any real solution to the problem in the UK, as long as you are >stuck, for whatever reason, with those s-l-o-w links. I mean no offense, but >200 bytes/sec *stinks!* It's a wonder you can do anything useful at all on >that basis. As others have said the 200 bytes/sec links are in the US. If it's so easy to correct please do so :-). Do you think the fact that you don't charge correctly for the use of these links might be a factor in the congestion (TANSTAAFL)? >Also, what are the chances of establishing a flat fee for local telephone >usage? I have a sneaking hunch that that one factor is *the* primary >limitation in your system, and that you folks in the UK will be held back >until some sort of flat rate becomes possible. If you're going to compare US and UK tariffs compare *all* of them. The UK doesn't come out too bad. Sure we pay for local calls - the standard charge is 4p per min in business hours, 1.7p per min on weekday evenings, 1p per min on Saturdays and Sundays, but I pay 25% less for my ISP calls - I pay ukl 2.00 per month for a 15% discount on all calls and can nominate the 5 most used numbers for an additional 10%. But our local areas are *large*, all being more than one area code and extending to adjacent towns - from Newcastle my local area includes Newcastle, Gateshead, Washington, Sunderland, Durham, Ashington, Blyth, Consett, Cramlington, Morpeth, and all in between, the whole of London is a single local area that extends to a few neighbouring towns. (They may not be as large in *area*, except for London, but don't forget the vastly higher population density in the UK.) Except for the small "regional" ring around each local area, non-local calls are "national" and the charge doesn't depend on distance. Don't forget to take account of the standing charges - a lot less in the UK. Finally without local phone charging Demon would have been unable to offer untimed flat fee local service. They pioneered this and have forced all the other ISPs to follow - Compuserve has at last caught up and are scheduled to offer 28800 service as a local call anywhere in the UK later this month, though still only for 5 hours a month above which one pays them an hourly rate. >Sorry, but the almighty Dollar (or Pound, or whatever) will still rule the >roost long after this discussion has faded out. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch! (Maybe you've heard that before. :-) ) -- John F Hall jfhall@avondale.demon.co.uk CompuServe: 100016,1210