*BSD News Article 72606


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From: jfhall@avondale.demon.co.uk (John F Hall)
Newsgroups: demon.ip.support,demon.tech.unix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Batch FTP and Web Pages
Date: 2 Jul 1996 14:27:26 +0100
Organization: -
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <4rb83u$5gd@avondale.demon.co.uk>
References: <31D4AA3A.BC0@www.play-hookey.com> <4r71bs$bpt@newsgate.duke.edu> <Snews.960701.180806.chris.7414@keris.demon.co.uk> <31D87436.7C7F@www.play-hookey.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: avondale.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: avondale.demon.co.uk

In article <31D87436.7C7F@www.play-hookey.com>,
Ken Bigelow  <kbigelow@www.play-hookey.com> wrote:

>I've been having an e-mail discussion of this with Ian Stirling, who is 
>connected to Demon. We've batted it back and forth a number of times, and I 
>still don't see any real solution to the problem in the UK, as long as you are 
>stuck, for whatever reason, with those s-l-o-w links. I mean no offense, but 
>200 bytes/sec *stinks!* It's a wonder you can do anything useful at all on 
>that basis.

As others have said the 200 bytes/sec links are in the US.  If it's so
easy to correct please do so :-).  Do you think the fact that you don't
charge correctly for the use of these links might be a factor in the
congestion (TANSTAAFL)?

>Also, what are the chances of establishing a flat fee for local telephone 
>usage? I have a sneaking hunch that that one factor is *the* primary 
>limitation in your system, and that you folks in the UK will be held back 
>until some sort of flat rate becomes possible.

If you're going to compare US and UK tariffs compare *all* of them.  The
UK doesn't come out too bad.  Sure we pay for local calls - the standard
charge is 4p per min in business hours, 1.7p per min on weekday
evenings, 1p per min on Saturdays and Sundays, but I pay 25% less for my
ISP calls - I pay ukl 2.00 per month for a 15% discount on all calls and
can nominate the 5 most used numbers for an additional 10%.  But our
local areas are *large*, all being more than one area code and extending
to adjacent towns - from Newcastle my local area includes Newcastle,
Gateshead, Washington, Sunderland, Durham, Ashington, Blyth, Consett,
Cramlington, Morpeth, and all in between, the whole of London is a
single local area that extends to a few neighbouring towns.  (They may
not be as large in *area*, except for London, but don't forget the
vastly higher population density in the UK.)  Except for the small
"regional" ring around each local area, non-local calls are "national"
and the charge doesn't depend on distance.  Don't forget to take account
of the standing charges - a lot less in the UK.

Finally without local phone charging Demon would have been unable to
offer untimed flat fee local service.  They pioneered this and have
forced all the other ISPs to follow - Compuserve has at last caught up
and are scheduled to offer 28800 service as a local call anywhere in the
UK later this month, though still only for 5 hours a month above which
one pays them an hourly rate.

>Sorry, but the almighty Dollar (or Pound, or whatever) will still rule the 
>roost long after this discussion has faded out.

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch!

(Maybe you've heard that before.  :-) )

-- 
John F Hall     jfhall@avondale.demon.co.uk    CompuServe: 100016,1210