Return to BSD News archive
Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.hawaii.edu!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!malgudi.oar.net!nerd.apk.net!sed.psrw.com!psinntp !psinntp!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!awfulhak.demon.co.uk!awfulhak.demon.co.uk!awfulhak.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail
From: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers)
Newsgroups: demon.ip.support,demon.tech.unix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Batch FTP and Web Pages
Followup-To: demon.ip.support,demon.tech.unix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Date: 2 Jul 1996 22:59:27 -0500
Organization: Coverform Ltd.
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <4rcr6v$dh@anorak.coverform.lan>
References: <31D4AA3A.BC0@www.play-hookey.com> <836073421snz@dsl.co.uk> <31D87436.7C7F@www.play-hookey.com> <836295557snz@dsl.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.coverform.lan
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: awfulhak.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) wrote:
: The links are *not* slow from our dial-up lines to the ISP; neither are
: they slow within (most of) the UK. The biggest problem lies in your
: oh-so-wonderful USofA, where the routers are overloaded and flapping
: incessantly, and just generally *slow*. People regularly get 3kB/s or
: more on ftp connections (occasionally, I've been getting them to some
: sites stateside, by judicious choice of calling time). (I should add
: that Demon's current peering arrangements mean that all the traffic
: passes through the notorious MAE-East site, which must be the most
: overloaded in the universe: it is from *there* that the 200B/s rates
: originate.)
Rubbish.
: Another problem with web surfing is that Netscape took a cynical decision
: to launch parallel multiple sessions which are playing absolute havoc
: with the RTT timeout adjustment algorithms of most TCP/IP packages: it
: has been said that this is the single most contributory factor to the
: slowing down of the 'net in the past year, with fully 40% of packets
: being needlessly duplicated.
I find that difficult to believe. What do you mean by TCP/IP packages?
Do you mean the machines on which netscape is running (such as maybe
Windows & OS/2)? If this is the case, then the OS is broken. RTTs
should be variable and should adjust according to connection throughput.
Ken wrote:
: > The technology exists to speed things up, so that's not the barrier. What kind
: > of regulations, taxes, and other impediments would be applied to an ISP who
: > actually did have a direct, high-speed connection to the backbone and who
: > could therefore offer practical dial-up connections at 14.4 kbaud or higher?
: Ahem. Demon have installed a 45Mb/s transatlantic link, which is
: currently being tested, and scheduled to enter service within the next
: fortnight. Note that the capacity of this link, which costs Demon some
: hundreds of pounds *per hour* is the same as MCI's current
: transcontinental backbone. A very large number of Demon's customers use
: V.34 modems, running at 28,800: with V.42bis compression, it's easily
: possible to get 7kB/s on compressible data such as news downloads. A
: small, but still significant number, have 64kb/s ISDN links, and others
: have faster leased lines. The problem is *not* with connectivity to
: Demon, nor even with their connectivity to the USA: it's in the latter
: country.
So, what you're saying is that demon - who recently were applying for
another class B address space (about 65000 users currently?) have decided
in their infinite wisdom to invest in a T3? Well, bully for them. Let's
see, 45,000,000 bits / 65,000 users = 692 *bits* each. Woooooffff !
I'll get out there and start my 86 byte/sec download now ! Ok, maybe
that's a bit unfair. They havn't got the capacity to have everyone
connected at once. Let's say they allow 6000 of us in at once, what's
that, about 937 bytes per second ? In fact, this *wonderful* T3 will
allow a staggering 1607 28.8k users to get max throughput. I'd better
rush home and get in there first.
The problem is that most of the decent sites are in the US (bar
src.doc.ic.ac.uk which mirrors a lot of stuff) - certainly, most
http pages will have links to places in the states - hell, FreeBSD's
lynx has builtin links directly to it's home-site in the states
(although they are configurable). We at Demon have only *one* route
to the states. It should have been a T3 by mid 1994.
: > Also, what are the chances of establishing a flat fee for local telephone
: > usage? I have a sneaking hunch that that one factor is *the* primary
: > limitation in your system, and that you folks in the UK will be held back
: > until some sort of flat rate becomes possible.
: Not until hell freezes over: there have been multiple rumours about such
: an approach, but it won't happen whilst Oftel run the telephones. It has
: even been rumoured that BT *might* like to introduce such a service, but
: Oftel would never permit that because it would have a detrimental effect
: on BT's competitors. Anyway, if telephone calls were charged at a flat
: rate, the ISPs would have to introduce some sort of time-based charging
: (Demon customers just pay ten pounds a month, regardless of how often or
: for how long they connect to Demon); that would lead to higher costs,
: because of the overhead of the accounting and charging operation.
: Better than a flat rate, anyway, would be *free* calls; charging a flat
: fee *per connection* encourages people to stay connected for longer than
: they need, thus forcing up costs (and charges) for ISPs, who have to
: provide increased capacity: the city of Kingston-upon-Hull has a flat
: rate charge, and eventually Demon had to close their PoP there, because
: some anti-social elements were remaining connected for hours, even days,
: at a time (the record was 8 days, IIRC).
I agree, but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with staying connected
except that demon do not have enough capacity to allow people to
permanently tie up a modem.
I *really* must stop ranting.
--
Brian <brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk>
Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....