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#! rnews 5304 bsd Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.anu.edu.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.eng.convex.com!newshost.convex.com!newsgate.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!zdc!zdc-e!szdc-e!news From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: TCP latency Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 15:23:17 -0500 Organization: John S. Dyson's home machine Lines: 98 Message-ID: <31E805B5.41C67EA6@dyson.iquest.net> References: <4paedl$4bm@engnews2.eng.sun.com> <4pf7f9$bsf@white.twinsun.com> <4rql4p$39f@innocence.interface-business.de> <4rrimn$dro@fido.asd.sgi.com> <31E16DB5.41C67EA6@dyson.iquest.net> <4rtvpf$7e5@fido.asd.sgi.com> <31E73BCA.41C67EA6@FreeBSD.org> <4s7jsd$blf@fido.asd.sgi.com> <31E7B8A5.41C67EA6@dyson.iquest.net> <4s8rtp$jsh@fido.asd.sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dyson.iquest.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b5a (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.networking:45118 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:23495 Larry McVoy wrote: > > Apparently, I'm overcoming that embarrassment just fine. :-) Equally > apparently, the Usenix association seemed to have the opposite idea, > given that lmbench got best of conference. And after the fact, it > seems like the interest in the benchmark suite has grown, not waned, > as would be expected if it was biased. > So you hoodwinked them, additionally, I do praise your benchmark suite. I think that your CONCLUSIONS are sometimes biased. > I think you are getting confused a little. The *benchmark* is not at > all biased. The numbers are the numbers. Please read the statement above. Yeah, FreeBSD on a P5 is slower than Linux on a P6 -- whaa, that hurts me :-). BTW, I would generally agree with that!!! > If you're saying I'd rather work on Linux than *BSD, you're right. > If you're saying that I'd cook the numbers to make Linux look better > than BSD, you're slandering me and I'll bet that's not what you want > to do. > I am speaking conclusions and interpretation AGAIN. > : Over and over, I have said that your benchmark suite is useful, but > : your credibility on interpreting results is nearly ZERO. > > Well, I guess that's your opinion. It's not widely shared outside of > the sour grapes department. > Again, your benchmark suite is good, I have said it over and over again. It is really great when one can interpret the results, as opposed to listening to other's, biased interpretations. > : Notice how important I was when I was asked to help on Linux? and now > : you try to put me and my efforts down? > > John, you're obviously a smart guy. When I approached you about working > on Linux, it was more for your own benefit than for Linux'. It was > obvious to me then (as it is now) that the Linux effort was far more > focussed on cool technology than on people's personalities. > Actually, I see the cult-of-personality in Linux (remember Linus-god?) Remember the comment that you made that I had no right to question him because he wrote the basic parts of a kernel? Ahhh come on now. This is a major pot calling the kettle black senerio. I seem to remember both yours and Linus' condescending remarks... I think that I have been in the professional world much longer than Linus, and perhaps you too... > > "A mind is a terrible thing to waste." I felt then, and feel now, that > working on *BSD is basically a waste of time. > Why was the networking suite re-developed from scratch by the Linux team to get (eventually) essentially the same performance? That is where the waste really is. (Also Linux could have brought the BSD suite under GPL, and encumbered it very nicely also.) > It was a compliment to > you that I was interested enough to try and get you to see things from > a different point of view. I'm sure you don't take it that way, but > that's your problem, not mine. > I have gone through the GPL quagmire, and have had to remove myself from it. I did contribute early on to some GPL software, but the encumberences made it VERY UNDESIREABLE for me to continue. > When are you > going to realize that my bias towards Linux is because of the fact that > Linux is constantly drawing more people towards itself, while *BSD is > constantly driving people away? > We get converts from Linux every day. It is usually when Linux simply does not work for them. It is the Linux team that started this argument with UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS... I did not bring it into comp.unix.netbsd.misc, for example... Who did? > The cool part about Linux is that there are no arguments like this. This > sort of time waster is a BSD idiosyncrasy, one that is a major bummer. > I think that it was Linux people this time... It was very wrong to let the disinformation continue. BTW, I haven't been trying to argue the issue of performance as much as proper interpretation of the results!!! Bogus generalized conclusions saying things like "FreeBSD is slower than Linux, because lat_tcp and friends run slower" is a common problem for beginners in benchmarking. We need to help them be able to distinguish between hype and reality. I saw unsubstantiated hype... John