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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.hawaii.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!EU.net!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!awfulhak.demon.co.uk!awfulhak.demon.co.uk!awfulhak.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk (Brian Somers) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: Why not buy Matrox Millennium Date: 19 Aug 1996 14:27:36 +0100 Organization: Coverform Ltd. Lines: 64 Distribution: world Message-ID: <4v9q48$et@anorak.coverform.lan> References: <4j21ph$crr@slappy.cs.utexas.edu> <stephenkDvp30A.366@netcom.com> <4u7hv4$jcd@agate.nbnet.nb.ca> <slrn50epup.vrk.knaff@choiseul.inrialpes.fr> <4u9oeg$91j@rigel.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> <32093E50.39EB@aloha.net> <slrn50ipqh.a9.cbbrowne@dantzig.brownes.org> <32097C81.167EB0E7@star-gate.com> <3209F875.3652CCE1@pobox.com> <320B5C98.38201961@xinside.com> <320B894A.5BFAB1C1@pobox.com> <4umjgf$d4o@guysmiley.blarg.net> <4umq90$ho4@idefix.CS.kuleuven.ac.be> <4us57j$f0c@guysmiley.blarg.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.coverform.lan X-NNTP-Posting-Host: awfulhak.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.development.apps:20674 comp.os.linux.development.system:30097 comp.os.linux.x:38360 comp.os.linux.hardware:47944 comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc:1055 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:4654 comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:4444 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:25721 Brandon J. Van Every (vanevery@blarg.net) wrote: : I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by "high-end" hardware. : If you want REALLY high end, like $1000+, then you'd expect the : drivers to come with the board, and you'd expect those drivers to be : damn heavily optimized for OpenGL or Direct3D or some such. And : writing such drivers is decidedly non-trivial. It's not the : hardware that does the job, it's the software. This is not the point. The argument is that Linux/BSD users want to write the software because they are not interrested in proprietary "magic". The "good" hardware is wanted. If the software company wants to contribute *FREE* software, then thank you. If they want to contribute good software then thank you *very* much. If you want to contribute "proprietary" software then good bye (from the BSD point of view anyway, and probably most Linux users). The fact is that the first step is to publicise the hardware spec. Only then can you publicise the software that drives it. But, I think you're saying that people should be paying for "the hardware & driver" in one shot. If that's the case, why don't these people sell the hardware with a disk full of object files for Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD (and all their current versions - or even the most recent version) along with the necessary kernel patches that will "merge" those objects with the kernel sources? Anyway, all that aside, IMO it is more usual to get *good* software from the *free* community than from a company. Compare FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and Linux to the likes of Unixware, SCO etc (I don't know about SunOS & Solaris, but I believe they're comparable to the "free unices"). There is *no* comparison.... - ok, so argue with me there ! On top of that, if and when something goes wrong, or something doesn't behave as you want, you can just change it ! I'll *never* be able to fix MS-Windows ! On top of that, they'll probably never be able to fix it either - and they have the source :)! .... I'm not having a go at MS - their products are good for what they are, and aren't part of the same market as unix, I'm having a go at "proprietary, no-source" programs .... : Whereas, this thread has been about Matrox's recalcitrance : to offer up specs to non-developers (join the developer program, sign : NDA's, then you get specs.) Most Linuxers seem to want 3d baords that : they can hack on and play with. That's typically a Millennium board, : and Millennium's aren't high-end. It's a commodity graphics card. I think we're talking about the PC market - not high end in itself, but Matrox is high-end within that market. : Put another way, the home-garden-kitchen W95 market buys plenty of : Millennium boards from Matrox. That is why they have the power to : blow off the Linux market. I'd tend to agree with the view (another recent post) that Matrox have dug themselves a hole by selling the rights. They can't give the rights away free without refunding everyone they've sold them to ! But I suppose if they got lots of $$$$$, it was worth it (in their eyes). It's just a pity. Anyway, I (as a market minority) will *not* buy Matrox until they change their attitude, and I'll tell everyone that I know the same thing - at least a dozen windows users and a hand full of OS/2. -- Brian <brian@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour....