Return to BSD News archive
Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!paladin.american.edu!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newshub.csu.net!usenet From: kzin@arcadia.SJSU.EDU (John Rudd) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,misc.consumers Subject: Re: Why to not buy Matrox Millennium Date: 28 Aug 1996 23:40:48 GMT Organization: Information Resources and Technology Lines: 69 Distribution: world Message-ID: <502le0$lv8@nuke.csu.net> References: <4j21ph$crr@slappy.cs.utexas.edu> <slrn50epup.vrk.knaff@choiseul.inrialpes.fr> <4u9oeg$91j@rigel.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> <32093E50.39EB@aloha.net> <4ubhcp$859@Venus.mcs.com> <502g5o$is7@usenet.pa.dec.com> Reply-To: kzin@arcadia.sjsu.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: isc-ts2-79.sjsu.edu X-Newsreader: RadicalNews (TM) 0.8.7 Beta(i) Cc: lowe@giraf.zso.dec.com Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.development.apps:21143 comp.os.linux.development.system:30633 comp.os.linux.x:39208 comp.os.linux.hardware:48781 comp.os.linux.setup:70853 comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc:1073 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:4731 comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc:4486 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:26284 misc.consumers:95478 In <502g5o$is7@usenet.pa.dec.com> Bruce Lowe wrote: [] []>> Yes, you could buy a commercial server, but the fact remains that when []>> you buy a piece of hardware, you don't expect to have to shell out $100 []>> just to use it! [] []> Wow, has Linux been around so long that it has altered people's expectations []> completely? I can't remember a time when I didn't feel insulted that after shelling out a couple hundred dollars for a piece of hardware, the exact same company made me pay more money to have the software that makes the hardware usable. If the hardware isn't usable without the software (like, say, the DRIVERS) then the hardware alone isn't a complete product. And, by the way, I've _never_ used Linux, so that has nothing to do with it. When I bought my first Adaptek 1542c SCSI host adaptor, imagine my suprise that it didn't come with drivers for DOS/Windows. The only way I could play games on CD was to use OS/2, which thankfully included the drivers for the adaptek "for free" (ie. bundled, no seperate charge beyond buying OS/2). The only way I was going to be able to use my SCSI CDROM under Dos/Win was to go out and shell out money for either Adaptek's SCSI drivers (another $100.. why didn't they just bundle them with the card and charge more for the card?) or buy some 3rd party package like Corel SCSI (luckily I found an old version of Corel SCSI on clearance.. $10.. at a local software store..it handled my needs perfectly). What this situation boiled down to was that Adaptek lured me in to buying their host adaptor at a given low price without telling me it was an incomplete product. If I hadn't been a multi-OS user (Nextstep and OS/2, which both have Adaptek drivers), the card would have been totally useless to me after paying a couple hundred dollars for it. Then they turn around and say "oh! you want to USE it!? send us another $100", as though it is a perfectly valid assumption on their part that at the base price all I wanted to use the card for was a decoration and power sucker. I wouldn't have been upset if even up front they told me "you need the software package, at extra charge, to use this under Windows", because at least then I would have budgeted that extra money UP FRONT (and considered it to be part of the cost of the product). But this situation smells of cliche's like "sucker punch" or "hooked and reeled in".. if it weren't for the fact that Adaptek is a defacto standard, it'd make me leery of buying any of their hardware ever again. []Yeah, I know. Imagine - a commercial company working full time creating []product, and they actually expect to make money. Perish the thought! What? They don't have a margin on the hardware? I mean, if they're going to try to make money on every little piece of the package that makes the main piece of equipment usable (the main piece of equipment being the hardware in this discussion), then how would you feel if the base package was just a packing box with the card.. no installation instructions, no warranty information, no information on contacting the company for anything else.. just the card. If you want ANYTHING else, even if its necessary to make the main product usable, you have to pay for it, and they expect to profit on it (what sort of margin would be standard on the install docs? Seems to me that once you've suckered people into buying the card, they'll pay a lot to get the install docs.. $100 for a host adaptor.. $100 for the drivers.. $200 for the install info). Would you object to that? If not, then I guess we have no common perspective to discuss.. I don't enjoy being taken for every penny I've got, clearly, if you find that example acceptable, you don't mind it at all. But if you do find that objectionable, then we really do agree on the basic objection.. it's just a matter of where we each draw the line. For me, the drivers are as basic and important to the usability of the card as the install docs, the warranty, and the information on how to contact the company.