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From: rguyom@valcofim.fr (Remi Guyomarch)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.infosystems.www.misc
Subject: Netscape vs Knews (was Re: Unix too slow for a Web server?)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:52:36 +0200
Lines: 170
Sender: root@valcofim.fr
Message-ID: <4n9935.cg.ln@localhost>
References: <323ED0BD.222CA97F@pobox.com> <51pog8$1gj@newsbr.eunet.fr>
<Dy0K58.MLv@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> <32423719.6904CE4@julia.de>
<51uo7m$bu9@magic.metawire.com> <R.3244780C.23B6AB75@aug.com>
<01bbadcf$6ef66e60$8588b6cc@tzspc> <324E26CD.7785@www.play-hookey.com>
<l7ij25.2s8.ln@localhost> <324E80B3.21F4@www.play-hookey.com>
<j87k25.97g.ln@localhost> <32521332.2BD0@www.play-hookey.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: s103.valcofim.fr
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8
Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.misc:133952 comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:28726 comp.infosystems.www.misc:44522
Another newsreader flamewar ! ;-)
In article <32521332.2BD0@www.play-hookey.com>,
Ken Bigelow <kbigelow@www.play-hookey.com> writes:
> Remi Guyomarch wrote:
>>
>> I disagree, sorry. Netscape won't do the job for me.
>>
>> I can't live without some Knews features, like putting a yellow square
>> in front of threads I've posted in, like killing some bothering
>> subject, part of subjects (actually subjects regexp), particular From:
>> adresses, particular Xrefs etc ... I like to be able to mark the same
Oh, I've missed something : you can kill entire threads, just
subthreads or only the article that match the subject | author | xref
regexp.
>> way interesting acticles, threads or posters (have you tried to spot
>> Linus' posts in comp.os.linux.misc ?). I like to have a real threading
>> news reader with a real 2D thread view. I like to be able to pipe the
>> article to any filter. I like to be able to post a binary in Base64 OR
>> uuencoded OR in quoted-printable, I like to be able to specify the
>> mime-type of the attachment. I like to be able to post a binary inline
>> or as an attachment. I like to be able to use my prefered editor
>> (XEmacs). I like to customize the code to my own taste, etc ...
>>
>> Netscape is a good browser, but it's not a good newsreader.
>> Knews is a good newsreader, but it's not a web browser.
>
> Which is to say, "You pays your penny and you takes your choice." I will
> point out, just to correct a couple of misapprehensions in your comments
> above, that Netscape *will* do much of what you mentioned above.
The only thing Netscape will do in what I've mentioned above is
threading, in a way that doesn't fit my need but could fit other's
needs.
But,
[MODE -INDESCENT ADVERTISING FOR A FREE PRODUCT- ON]
Netscape don't do :
- kill / hot files (hot = a colored square [you choose the
color] in front of a particular thread / article)
- names and signatures depending on the newsgroup
- caching thread info between sessions
- read ahead of articles
- automatically add customized headers (X-No-Archive...)
- you could choose what headers you want, ie: no 'Newsgroups:'
and 'Organization:' header, but the 'NNTP-Posting-Host:'
header. (independent of the Full Header mode)
- (optionally) show number of lines in the article list
- assemble partial articles
- background reading of new articles
- attribution string cutomizable :
*attribution: In article %m,\n %f writes:
- customized quote string :
(two different quote strings : one for the text to be quoted
and one for the text already quoted)
KB> For example: Threads are handled as threads (you can disable this, but
KB> don't have to). In the Win3.1 version, it's fully 2D; in the BSD
KB> version it
(BBS style)
- handle some 16 bits charsets (experimental) :
utf-7 The encoding specified for unicode in rfc 1642.
16-bit Straight 16-bit network byte order.
hz-gb-2312 The encoding for chinese described in rfc 1842.
ksc-5601 Also called iso-2022-kr, described in rfc 1557.
big5 Another encoding for chinese.
- a default charset depending on the newsgroups (when there is
no MIME headers), ie:
*defaultCharset: us-ascii
de*defaultCharset: iso-8859-2
fr*defaultCharset: iso-8859-1
- (optionnaly) sort newsgroups list
- customized colors for headers, normal text and quoted text
- (optionnaly) check for new groups at each connections
[MODE -INDESCENT ADVERTISING FOR A FREE PRODUCT- OFF]
> For
> example: Threads are handled as threads (you can disable this, but don't
> have to). In the Win3.1 version, it's fully 2D; in the BSD version it
> shows two levels and a number indicating the depth. Either way, you can
> expand or collapse the thread or any branch.
I find netscape thread view too much thin to be usable for 'big'
threads, like this one for example (I know, I can expand the tread
column to the righ, but this reduce the subject line...). Even if it
was large enough, I find Knews view easier to read, with blocks and
graphical lines (plain or dotted, depending if it's the same subject).
And since Netscape doesn't provide a convenient way of retrieving
articles read in a past session, the only way to take a look at past
articles is to chain from articles to articles with the "references"
header (note that there isn't a 'back' button) or to choose 'view all
articles' and so reloading the entire newsgroup.
Since Knews can maintain a header cache between sessions, it doesn't
have to reload the entire group. With 2000+ headers in a newsgroup (not
uncommon) and a 14,400 modem, reloading an entire newsgroup is
sloooowwww...
> You can also zap a thread or a whole newsgroup as read. (No, that's not
> the same as a killfile, but it gives me the chance to verify the
> insignificance of the thread -- to me -- without automatic zapping. This
> is my choice.)
Have you never been tired of 'my OS is better than yours' in some
c.o.linux.* newsgroups ? (yes, I know, this thread is becoming a 'my
newsreader is better than yours :-) Have you never been tired of
posts like "HOW TO TURN $1 INTO $50000", "FAST CASH" etc ... I use
kill files for things like that. There is some newsgroups where
the sound/noise ratio is pretty low... It's not the case with
comp.os.linux.* but for other's it is.
> It doesn't care (yet) for Base64, but has no problem with uuencoding,
> quoted-printable, and several similar -- I've seen everything from an
> encoded image decoded and displayed as part of the post to a full HTML
> page tacked onto a news header. It also handles attachments with no
> trouble, either for e-mail (which I don't use) or for news posts.
I don't know if it decodes BinHex or BtoA or any other 'exotic' binary
to ascii conversion method. Since it can't pipe the article to another
program, you have to do it yourself (save to file, launch decoder,
remove ascii version). I admit that 90% of usenet binaries are in
Base64 or uuencoded, and Netscape does the Right Thing with these
attachments.
> Prefer the browser/newsreader/whatever of your choice, by all means.
In fact, Knews isn't the only 'good' newsreader. Gnus, slrn and other
unix newsreaders are very good IMHO compared to Netscape. My point is :
use a web browser for web browsing, use a newsreader for reading news
!
Note: If you want a 'good' newsreader for Winblows (16|32), buy Agent (the
commercial version of FreeAgent) from Forte (http://www.forteinc.com).
Nearly all Knews features can be found in Agent, and sometimes they
are easier to use.
I've heard that the next version of Netscape (4.x) will have a better,
completly redesigned newsreader...
Another thing that could be important : Netscape Navigator is a
commercial product and it cost money for most people. Knews is free.
> What you use is properly determined by what you want to do and how well
> the software serves your needs.
I admit I usualy prefer powerfull tools to simpler one.
--
Remi Guyomarch
Montargis, FRANCE
rguyom@valcofim.fr