*BSD News Article 82476


Return to BSD News archive

Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.Hawaii.Edu!news.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!usenet
From: dillon@flea.best.net (Matt Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: freeBSD and P6/180
Date: 8 Nov 1996 00:54:42 GMT
Organization: BEST Internet Communications, Inc.
Lines: 96
Message-ID: <55u0ci$fl5@nntp1.best.com>
References: <32784DB5.2BDE@sybase.com> <3280D2FC.28D5@www.play-hookey.com> <57g22mmc2l.fsf@tees.elsevier.co.uk> <32823416.24F5@www.play-hookey.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: flea.best.net

:In article <32823416.24F5@www.play-hookey.com>,
:Ken Bigelow  <kbigelow@www.play-hookey.com> wrote:
:>Paul Richards wrote:
:>> 
:>> Ken Bigelow <kbigelow@www.play-hookey.com> writes:
:>> 
:>> > > You don't want a cpu at that speed either, make sure it's a multiple
:>> > > of 33 1/3 (roughly).
:>> >
:>> > Now you've got me puzzled. What's wrong with a multiple of 40 or 50 MHz
:>> > (always assuming the motherboard can run at one or the other of thoses
:>> > speeds)? I would expect that a higher motherboard speed would be
:>> > desirable, too.
:>> >
:>> > Could it be that the motherboard is expected to clock at 60 MHz for the
:>> > PP180? That would make more sense to me than running a 30 MHz clock and
:>> > a 6X multiplier.
:>> 
:>> Yes. But it sounds like you've got an out of date notion of bus
:>> speeds. 40 and 50 Mhz is *slow*, you want to run the bus at
:>> 66Mhz. Running the bus at 60Mhz is a 6Mhz drop which people don't
:>> think is significant until you point out it's 10%
:>
:>Obviously I'm more limited by my pocketbook than I had realized. My site
:>is still running on an ISA/VLB motherboard (486DX50) with EIDE drive,
:>etc. I can upgrade to a 5x86-133 (AMD) which overclocks to 160, but with
:>a 33.6K dialup connection, this is the bottleneck in any case. Ah, well,
:>when I win the lottery.....
:>
:>Thanks for waking me up, although it'll still be awhile.
:>-- 
:>Ken
:>
:>Are you interested in   |
:>byte-sized education    |   http://www.play-hookey.com
:>over the Internet?      |

    The real significance is as much in bus WIDTH as it is in bus
    SPEED.  The PCI bus only runs at 33 MHz (I think), but at 32 bits wide
    you get as much as 130 MBytes/sec out of it when doing
    burst DMA or burst pipelined writes.  Compare that to ISA,
    where you would be lucky to get 5 MBytes/sec out of it.

    The dynamic rams used for memory are still the same old 70ns
    SIMMs they have always been.. in fact, EDO is not fundamentally
    different beyond the 'extended data out' portion... it's still
    the same basic speed, just tuned such that a modern memory
    controller can access it one clock faster.

    The difference is that on a pentium class machine two SIMMs
    are accessed in parallel.. 64 bits rather then 32, doubling
    the effective throughput.  If you add interleaving (with 
    four SIMMs), you double it again.

    CPU caches are now a whole lot larger and a whole lot wider..
    A typical instruction cache is 128 to 256 bits wide.  
    Something like the pentium (pro) gets 200 MIPS (200 MILLION
    instructions per second) by accessing a slower, but very
    much wider cache subsystem.  RISC chips generally work the
    same way.  Instruction execution is effectively decoupled
    from the memory and, except for reads, the I/O subsystem,
    allowing instructions to be executed at 10 times the rate
    the nominal memory subsystem would otherwise be able to support.

    On the other hand, most RISC processors, including the
    pentium come back down to earth with certain types of
    non-cacheable or badly-cachable accesses.  For example,
    a read-modify-write in a video frame buffer is usually
    non-cacheable and may be eight times slower then a simple
    write to the same video frame buffer (which can be pipelined
    and not have to stall the instruction stream).  Many RISC
    processors go to great lengths to avoid these bottlenecks.
    For example, the pentium employs a branch-prediction cache
    in an attempt to keep the instruction pipeline full even
    through branches, calls, and jumps.  A single cache miss is 
    roughly equivalent to 20 or more cache-hit instructions.

    Another example would be a pentium class machine trying 
    to read or write to an ISA card... icky!  Or a pentium class
    machine trying to do PIO (progammed I/O), which effectively turns
    a pentium pro 200 into a 486 or worse.  As long as you
    have the cycles to burn, I guess it doesn't matter, but
    if you need those cpu cycles, PCI cards and drivers that
    support PCI DMA are required.

    Microcontrollers also take quick advantage of caching as well.
    You can now purchase a $30 single-chip RISC microcontroller
    capable of 20+ MIPS using the SAME memory subsystem as an
    older non-cached cpu (e.g. 68302) which accesses memory for
    every instruction and runs along at a whopping 2 MIPS.  Amoung
    other things, this makes coprocessors extremely cheap, in
    order to allow the main cpu(s) to NOT have to spin expensive
    cycles on external accesses.

					-Matt