*BSD News Article 87442


Return to BSD News archive

Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.cis.okstate.edu!nntp.ksu.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!agate!theos.com!deraadt
From: deraadt@theos.com (Theo de Raadt)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.misc
Subject: Re: Linux vs BSD
Date: 24 Jan 1997 11:04:27 GMT
Organization: Theo Ports Kernels For Fun And Profit
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <DERAADT.97Jan24040427@zeus.theos.com>
References: <32DFFEAB.7704@usa.net> <5c39sk$ddl@troma.rv.tis.com>
	<5c8jlm$50u@cynic.portal.ca> <5c9444$9vq@lace.colorado.edu>
	<5c98sl$gbn@cynic.portal.ca> <32E84F44.75616F4D@w3page.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.theos.com
In-reply-to: Blaine Minazzi's message of Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:57:25 -0700
Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.misc:153983 comp.os.linux.networking:66015 comp.os.linux.setup:93682 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:5714 comp.unix.bsd.misc:2006

In article <32E84F44.75616F4D@w3page.com> Blaine Minazzi <bminazzi@w3page.com> writes:
   Linux:
   Personal workstation. No other O/S gives _me_ what I want for this.  I
[...]

Oh oh, here comes a twisty tangent...

   FreeBSD:
   My Web Internet servers. The Security, the flexability, the speed,
   all beat linux.
			    ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, this particular part is not true.  I would definately suggest
that RedHat Linux has better security than FreeBSD has.

I might know -- I've spent the last 6 months working with a group of
people to fix the many security holes that exist in BSD systems (and
all the numerous derivatives that used BSD code.... including Linux.)
We are doing this work on yet another BSD varient -- OpenBSD, it is
one of our main focuses.  A few of the people I've worked with also
work on improving Linux security.  I think RedHat payed attention to
these details, and it's starting to show because a few recent
advisories indicate that they already had certain holes plugged.

This is just a guess, though.  It's hard to judge these things for
sure without getting the security conscious people from the various
projects together in a dark room and seeing who scares who more.
Perhaps David Holland can tell me who was more scared when we talked
at Usenix ;-)

To me, one aspect of a secure-conscious operating system is that it
ships with many holes plugged _before they become common knowledge_.

Regarding FreeBSD comparisons, OpenBSD isn't neccessarily as fast, but
well... fast isn't everything.  Correct operation might matter once in
a while, too.... and more specifically that might include not having
as many security holes and weeny users breaking root and modifying web
pages.  I also concur with previous comments that most people are
unable to spot a speed difference between the various operating
systems; I have heard it many times.

Instead our direction with OpenBSD has been to focus on security,
standards compliance, and general usefulness.  It looks as if security
concerned ISP's like OpenBSD.  Everything man-made has flaws, and some
people are willing to put up with OpenBSD's flaws in return for some
of it's benefits.  And people do occasionally make the opposite
decision and it doesn't bother me.  They're probably also like mustard
on their eggs (ICK!) and I don't take that personally either.

I won't deny that FreeBSD is being used in a hell of a lot of places.
As are MVS and VMS.  There's no accounting for taste (as long as you
can run emacs!)

Just like nearly everything else in the world, things mutate in really
weird ways.  Cross-pollination.  It's almost a given that next year's
Toyota Tercel will look like a Mercedes did 4 years ago, but of course
there's many other differences too and some may be really subtle.  The
same happens in the vendor operating system world, and it shouldn't be
too surprising that it might happen in the free operating system world
too.  Next year Nissan might be making crap cars and Ford's might be
good quality.

In other words, grab the latest copy of each...

Try them.  Choose.  Then (don't) buy it.  (Just use it ;-) Next year,
perhaps re-evaluate if you hear enough cool things about another
system, or have too many PRIVATE bitches about the system you are
using.

And perhaps we can all stop bitching about it though, and instead use
our systems, whatever they are, for doing some cool things.  There are
people out there that have provided code to all 4 free projects; even
_kernel_ code...

So, anyone want to help OpenBSD implement CD-R writing code?

--
This space not left unintentionally unblank.		deraadt@theos.com
www.OpenBSD.org -- We're fixing security problems so you can sleep at night.