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From: veit@borneo.gmd.de (Holger Veit)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: GPL
Date: 6 Feb 1997 16:59:56 GMT
Organization: GMD - German National Research Center for Information Technology
Lines: 85
Sender: veit@simi (Holger Veit)
Message-ID: <5dd2mc$ad5@omega.gmd.de>
References: <32DFFEAB.7704@usa.net> <32F167BB.41C67EA6@freebsd.org> <0rnuc5.3e1.ln@zen> <5cvodo$hme@omega.gmd.de> <5db0q8$1f6i@usenet1y.prodigy.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: simi.gmd.de
Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.misc:156298 comp.os.linux.networking:67347 comp.os.linux.advocacy:82496 comp.unix.bsd.misc:2264 comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy:51953 comp.os.os2.advocacy:265812
In article <5db0q8$1f6i@usenet1y.prodigy.net>, davidsen@tmr.com (bill davidsen) writes:
|> In article <5cvodo$hme@omega.gmd.de>, Holger Veit <Holger.Veit@gmd.de> wrote:
|>
|> | Dream on. What's happening to me was the following: there is a company
|> | which has made a port of gcc to some embedded controller. They want
|> | DEM 3000 for a service contract and then give you binaries and sources
|> | of this port "as an addition". When you ask them "GPL and free software,
|> | and blurb, and blah, I would like to have the *free GPL'd* software" they'll
|> | tell you: we are not a software company, we sell consulting for that
|> | embedded controller, and some port of the gcc is just a courtesy, and
|> | no, you won't get the gcc, you can buy support...circle,circle,circle.
|> | Point is with software, that you may write it, but noone can force you
|> | to give it to everybody coming along, even if it is GPL. I am going to
|> | write my own code in my own chamber, and put a GPL label on it, because
|> | I think the CopyLeft header looks c00l, but this does not make it
|> | automatically public domain, so that you may request a copy from me.
|>
|> No license will work with people who operate outside the law. I
|> don't know what your laws might be, but they are clearly in
|> violation of the license, and at least in this country you could
The point is here that the term 'license' is void in German law. What is
there are certain (difficult to translate without loss of juridical
semantics) "conditions in a trade contract". There are certain clauses
which are considered "surprising" and are therefore void. An example would
be if you would buy a car and find on page 75 of the trade contract that
you may drive it only on Wednesdays. Such a clause is void and a general
set of contract clauses will then apply. While it is obvious nonsense in
the car example to restrict the conditions of use, there have been numerous
attempts in the past in the area of trading with computer components and
software; to name a few that are void:
- If you buy a PC, the dealer may not void warrant if the customer opened
the case to add a common interface card component.
- If you buy a software, it is not possible, despite of copyright or some
clause in such a so-called license agreement, to forbid reverse-engineering
and analysis generally - the customer is allowed to do this if it is
necessary to integrate the component into a given environment (e.g.
analysis of a Windows driver installed by the product which will break
other code which was formerly working). This is no privateer-letter to
decompile anything you like, though!
- It is not allowed to request that the user does not run or install foreign
software (e.g. it is not allowed if a CAD vendor X requests that you must
delete competitive product B from vendor Y from the disk before getting
the permission to use X's product A.
- A "license agreement" of the type "you may use it, but the media and
any bit of data on it still belongs to us, and if you don't behave correctly,
we'll request both back" is accordingly invalid.
- etc.
Under this aspect, a clause in GPL which allows you to derive code from
bought source code if and only if your own code must be given out as well
has a good chance of being void, namely then if it can be shown - and this
is IMHO possible without a difficulty - that it is not common practice to
request that developers must release their intellectual property (and it
is at least partly an own work for the modified parts) if they use certain
*published* work. It is a matter of debating how much parts need to be changed
that some work becomes an original artwork, but definitely a totally generalized
statement would be caught by the justice, even if the GPL advocats would like
it if a single "strcpy" routine copied from the glibc would make a whole
10000 liner software to a GPL product.
|> take them to court to get the source, cost, damages, etc. And have a
|> reasonable shot a winning what you want, some punitive damages and a
|> court order requiring them to provide support to you at the same
|> price and level as other customers.
|>
|> And having done that you can then give away the source code, or sell
|> it for whatever you can get.
Wishful thinking. The GPL was never tested in court, it is very likely possible
that it is not worth the diskspace for the file in other countries than US.
Nevertheless, it is useless junk for any serious, corporate developer who
wouldn't touch it even with a 10ft pole. Why should they save some hours
or weeks to develop with a maybe, maybe not tainted software, if they can
reinvent the wheel easily? After all, it is the customer who pays the bill.
And typically, the customer is not the small-budget student-type GPL fan.
--
Dr.-Ing. Holger Veit | INTERNET: Holger.Veit@gmd.de
| | / GMD - German National Research | Phone: (+49) 2241 14 2448
|__| / Center for Information Technology| Fax: (+49) 2241 14 2242
| | / Schloss Birlinghoven | XFree86/OS2 goes public!
| |/ D-53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany | V3.2 from ftp.xfree86.org
WWW: http://borneo.gmd.de/~veit/ | /pub/XFree86/3.2/binaries/OS2