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#! rnews 2785 bsd Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!msunews!agate!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!nntp.sei.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!sumner+ From: Gerry S Hayes <sumner@CMU.EDU> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.editors,comp.unix.bsd.misc Subject: Re: What is vi? (Re: Betting on Unix) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:10:47 -0500 Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 35 Distribution: inet Message-ID: <0n=6zb200YUg0F3Lk0@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <5d3sr2$44n@nntp1.best.com> <330a1d23.2419719@172.15.0.208> <5ef5c8$rgs@arktur.rz.uni-ulm.de> <330B2333.38B6@to.me.please> <5ehglc$lef@innocence.interface-business.de> <330EF0FF.55CE@to.me.please> <5esial$eit@innocence.interface-business.de> <5esunl$9bv@web.nmti.com> <3313B49A.2B42@ibm.net> <331b5865.0@131.162.2.91> <857531709.6661.1@msn-9-16.binc.net> <331D71A4.556B@absyss.fr> <5fto1u$jde$2@peachy.apana.org.au> <pdxvi6z9x8j.fsf_-_@vesuri.Helsinki.FI> <0n_vIm200YUf0Q5OA0@andrew.cmu.edu> <5ggpcj$5sd@clarknet.clark.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: po7.andrew.cmu.edu In-Reply-To: <5ggpcj$5sd@clarknet.clark.net> Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.os.linux.misc:164824 comp.editors:22334 comp.unix.bsd.misc:2822 T.E.Dickey <dickey@clark.net> writes: > In comp.editors Gerry S Hayes <sumner@CMU.EDU> wrote: > : None of the vi clones conform to POSIX yet, AFAIK; vim lacks ex mode > : (strange, since vi is just the Visual Interface to ex), nvi lacks > : modelines. Elvis is best for vi compatibility as far as I've seen. > > I have a copy of a Posix document from 1993 for vi that doesn't mention > modelines (which version are you referring to?). > You're correct. I was at work and didn't have my POSIX specs in front of me. That's curious; it means that there is no good definition of what "vi" is. POSIX vi is a well-defined concept, but isn't sufficient to capture what is generally meant by vi. "What traditional vi does" varies from traditional vi to traditional vi. *sigh* Emacs as a concept usually means an editor that has a certain set of key-bindings, but even those vary (Unipress v. GNU v. Gosling v. Micropress). We can do a little better than that (since I think everyone agrees that POSIX is close to a subset of what vi is), but there's still room for a lot of variation in what vi is. This may be a good thing or not depending on your viewpoint, but it makes it tough for vi cloners to know what needs to be cloned. Nvi, in particular, has said they will never support modelines. This is too bad, since modelines can be useful when used properly and with a few extra security checks in the vi implementation. Cordially, Sumner -- Respond by post or email, but please don't do both; my mailbox is already quite full.