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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!worldnet.att.net!news.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!fido.asd.sgi.com!neteng!lm From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc Subject: Re: no such thing as a "general user community" Followup-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc Date: 31 Mar 1997 00:20:36 GMT Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 65 Message-ID: <5hn00k$dio@fido.asd.sgi.com> References: <331BB7DD.28EC@net5.net> <5g9hjp$api@flea.best.net> <5gmb58$6jd$1@news.clinet.fi> <5gn3ig$83d@flea.best.net> <5goqrq$5ak$1@news.clinet.fi> <5hd29s$e7t@fido.asd.sgi.com> <333C1614.ABD@sgi01.grn.aera.com> <5hhv1k$jh9@fido.asd.sgi.com> <333E3530.794B@sgi01.grn.aera.com> <333EA3EF.41C67EA6@consys.com> <333EE416.ABD322C@FreeBSD.org> Reply-To: lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com NNTP-Posting-Host: neteng.engr.sgi.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:38090 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:6515 comp.sys.sgi.misc:29539 Jordan K. Hubbard (jkh@FreeBSD.org) wrote: : Still, since Larry has now proven to us all that one can blatently get : away with this kind of sleight-of-hand marketing Jordan, your unhappiness with that Usenix paper has nothing to do with the numbers. I just went through the numbers, which were certainly apples to apples, slightly skewed in favor of FreeBSD (133Mhz P5 vs 120Mhz P5 for Linux). Here's the summary of the i586 systems, FreeBSD vs Linux: FreeBSD wins: memory bandwidth (this is really hardware, not OS), TCP bandwidth (local & remote), file reread (read & mmap), signal handling, TCP latency (local & remote), TCP connect latency. Linux wins: pipe bw, system call, fork, exec, shell, contex switching, pipe pipe latency, udp latency, file system create / delete. If you read the paper, it makes FreeBSD look like a pretty decent OS. Which it is. In spute of your flames to contrary, my lack of support for FreeBSD has nothing to do with the technology. In terms of your repeated statements that I "skewed" the data, may I point out . the data is all reproducable and has never been proven to be skewed in any way, shape or form. In fact, later data simply confirms the earlier data. . the paper went through review. . the paper was coauthered by Carl Staelin, are you accusing him of skewing the data as well? I think the real reason you hate that Usenix presentation is that I used it to voice my obvious support for Linux. That support is based not on technical merit (though there is plenty of technical merit in Linux just as there is in *BSD) but on the chance that Linux could actually become a force in the Unix market place. I'm not an NT fan. I originally started out supporting NetBSD as my choice for a free operating system on every hardware platform. I soon left in disgust after watching all the BSD factions argue with each other and agree on nothing. I support the Linux effort simply because they get along with each other and try and help each other and acknowledge one person as the leader. This looks to me like a formula for success. The BSD stuff looks like a formula for arguments. So far, my choice isn't looking like a mistake. Please realize that I have nothing against the BSD technology. I just don't think that the world cares very much about technology. The Linux stuff is good enough and getting better every day. The important thing, for _all of us_, is that we all agree on a common source base. NT has it, Unix must have it. There is precious little time left for Unix to be any sort of force in the market place. Do you really want to squander what little chance we have left by arguing about your version versus the other version? Wouldn't it be better if we were all working on the same thing? Making one Unix better and stronger for everyone? And if you disagree and want to continue to work on your version, go for it. Perhaps you can do wonderful things in your OS and that will be great. But try and understand that I am actually trying to make sure that those wonderful things are relevant. If the world is 100% NT, nothing you do is at all interesting. If the world is 50% NT and 50% Linux, then your stuff is interesting just because it is Unix. In that sense, you ought to be a Linux fan since it represents, in my opinion, our most likely chance at having any sort of Unix at all in the future. -- --- Larry McVoy lm@sgi.com http://reality.sgi.com/lm (415) 933-1804