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Path: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au!newshost.carno.net.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!fido.asd.sgi.com!neteng!lm From: lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com (Larry McVoy) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc Subject: Re: no such thing as a "general user community" Followup-To: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc Date: 1 Apr 1997 21:54:21 GMT Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 51 Message-ID: <5hs06d$jtt@fido.asd.sgi.com> References: <331BB7DD.28EC@net5.net> <5g9hjp$api@flea.best.net> <5gmb58$6jd$1@news.clinet.fi> <5gn3ig$83d@flea.best.net> <5goqrq$5ak$1@news.clinet.fi> <5hd29s$e7t@fido.asd.sgi.com> <333C1614.ABD@sgi01.grn.aera.com> <5hhv1k$jh9@fido.asd.sgi.com> <333E3530.794B@sgi01.grn.aera.com> <333EA3EF.41C67EA6@consys.com> <333EE416.ABD322C@FreeBSD.org> <5hn00k$dio@fido.asd.sgi.com> <333F45A6.41C67EA6@FreeBSD.org> <5hpolu$9t2@fido.asd.sgi.com> <3340CC28.167EB0E7@FreeBSD.org> Reply-To: lm@slovax.engr.sgi.com NNTP-Posting-Host: neteng.engr.sgi.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: euryale.cc.adfa.oz.au comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:38220 comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc:6536 comp.sys.sgi.misc:29586 Jordan K. Hubbard (jkh@FreeBSD.org) wrote: : Your premise hangs off the conclusion that BSD is dead and can't offer a : significantly useful alternative to Linux. It's far from dead. It's also far from having any significant impact on the market place. Let's look at the endpoints just to see which way to go: Extreme #1: every kernel hacker wants their own playground, they all splinter, there are 400 different variations of Unix. Extreme #2: all the hackers decide to band together against a common threat and all go to work on one source base. Both are extreme endpoints of the same spectrum. I realize that both are, to some extent, unrealistic. But which endpoint do you think better serves Unix? The Unix users? The Unix developers? Which endpoint better serves Microsoft? Which endpoint is closer to the actions of the *BSD crowd? : The fact that the general UNIX vendor community screwed the pooch in : many various expensive ways is also hardly our fault - many of us were : *inside* those very vendors at the time, screaming alone in the darkness : for reason and sanity, and maybe we don't plan on making all the same : mistakes that they did. Except you are doing exactly what they did. Forget about unifying the vendors, you can't even keep it together in the free software world. You can't even keep it together in the Free BSD software world. If you were doing the right thing, Linux wouldn't exist, nor would N-1 of the *BSD camps. : I think that both conclusions are completely wrong and biased overmuch : by your previous (bad) experience with SunOS. Hey, I'm over SunOS. It was a nice OS but time marches on. You need to get over these needless variations of BSD just like I needed to get past SunOS. It's not so bad, you know. Linux isn't SunOS but in some ways it is better and it is getting better faster than SunOS got better. I hope you realize that it isn't Linux that I'm voting for. It's convergence. I just happen to think that Linus & Co are doing a better job of keeping the Unix world together than the venders or the BSD guys. If Linux started diverging and you started converging, there would come a day that I'd throw my hat into your ring. Convergence is more important to me because I believe that convergence == market share. Divergence == irrelevance. -- --- Larry McVoy lm@sgi.com http://reality.sgi.com/lm (415) 933-1804